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zeynep's profile
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
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@zeynep

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zeynep tufekciVerified account

@zeynep

Complex systems, wicked problems. Society, technology, science and more. @UNC professor. @NYTimes columnist. My newsletter is @insight: http://www.theinsight.org 

floating in a most peculiar way
theinsight.org
Joined August 2009

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    1. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 10 Feb 2018
      Replying to @zeynep @alexstamos and

      You're correct, when enabled for 1% of users it effectively makes them too expensive to phish. That's only true if attacker gets 1% more victims when he supports it. If he gets 30% more victims, economics change and worth supporting. Attacker already has capability to phish.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    2. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 10 Feb 2018
      Replying to @taviso @alexstamos and

      In my observations, password reuse and easy to guess passwords are the huge threats on their own. Phishing, while also not apparently that much harder in theory, is actually practically out-of-reach for many of these opportunistic attackers.

      1 reply 1 retweet 4 likes
    3. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 10 Feb 2018
      Replying to @zeynep @taviso and

      Could attackers improve? Sure, in theory. But in theory people could be convinced not to reuse passwords or make them their kid’s name. That said, I spend much of my life trying to convince people to use auth apps or U2F.

      3 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    4. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 10 Feb 2018
      Replying to @zeynep @alexstamos and

      I guess I'm not sure I understand where we disagree, we both agree that attackers can improve, and both agree they haven't yet while adoption is so low. Is it that you argue that even when forced to adapt because of high adoption of SMS-2FA, they'll just pack up and go home?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 10 Feb 2018
      Replying to @taviso @alexstamos and

      Yes. In my experience, there is a non-negligible group of opportunistic attackers that can do password reuse/kid’s name password but will not/cannot escalate. This doesn’t apply to any high-value target or to systematic phishers (who have economic concerns).

      2 replies 2 retweets 3 likes
    6. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 10 Feb 2018
      Replying to @zeynep @taviso and

      If we disagree, it’s that I don’t this SMS 2FA is basically worthless. If you’re a vendor, I’d be begging you not to do it that way, and to adopt U2F and/or auth app. Still, for many users, those are surprisingly hard steps.

      1 reply 1 retweet 2 likes
    7. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 10 Feb 2018
      Replying to @zeynep @alexstamos and

      I get that, but my point was you can achieve the same result that we both like (lower opportunistic phishing) with my silly banana scheme. Is my banana scheme basically worthless? If yes, then why is it worse than SMS-2FA?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 10 Feb 2018
      Replying to @taviso @alexstamos and

      "Banana" is fixed word? Once again, anything that involves typing something, not a huge barrier to opportunistic attacks. Mutter the words "php script", and a surprisingly non-negligent number of them seem to scatter.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    9. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 10 Feb 2018
      Replying to @zeynep @alexstamos and

      Yes, fixed word, must be typed into a form field. Your php script will have to be changed to support it. So you're saying that my banana scheme isn't worthless, and has value?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 10 Feb 2018
      Replying to @taviso @alexstamos and

      This may seem really weird, but even that might have a non-zero impact. Though the distance between (1) regular phishing and (2) editing php script is probably much closer than the difference between (3) guessing easy password and (4) escalating to phishing a hard password.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 10 Feb 2018
      Replying to @zeynep @taviso and

      (1) can probably do (2) a lot more often than (3) and do (4). I understand that these aren't necessarily seemingly that different or big steps but opportunistic attackers often share similar population vulnerabilities to people reusing passwords.

      1:14 PM - 10 Feb 2018
      • 1 Like
      • ⬢ Jens Wiechers ⬡ (he/him; prefers they/them)
      0 replies 0 retweets 1 like

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