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zeynep's profile
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
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@zeynep

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zeynep tufekciVerified account

@zeynep

Complex systems, wicked problems. Society, technology, science and more. @UNC professor. @NYTimes columnist. My newsletter is @insight: http://www.theinsight.org 

floating in a most peculiar way
theinsight.org
Joined August 2009

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    1. John Pfaff‏ @JohnFPfaff 23 Jun 2016

      John Pfaff Retweeted zeynep tufekci

      1. Argh. I was w/ lawyer all the way to the last sentence. Absolutely true that these algos should be public. But…https://twitter.com/zeynep/status/745704022527582209 …

      John Pfaff added,

      zeynep tufekciVerified account @zeynep
      Absolutely unacceptable. Algorithms used in sentencing CANNOT be proprietary & secret. No. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/23/us/backlash-in-wisconsin-against-using-data-to-foretell-defendants-futures.html … pic.twitter.com/WlNpGK4JaH
      2 replies 2 retweets 4 likes
    2. John Pfaff‏ @JohnFPfaff 23 Jun 2016
      Replying to @JohnFPfaff

      2A. The idea that sentences by judges are “individualized” but those by algorithms are not is utter lunacy and needs to go away.

      1 reply 1 retweet 2 likes
    3. John Pfaff‏ @JohnFPfaff 23 Jun 2016
      Replying to @JohnFPfaff

      2B. Judges use “algos” too. Reason that “individualized” factor seems relevant is bc OTHER PPL with same factor have turned out good/bad.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. John Pfaff‏ @JohnFPfaff 23 Jun 2016
      Replying to @JohnFPfaff

      3. So question is never “individualized judicial sentences vs. statistical algos.” It’s just WHO does a BETTER job making statistical calls.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. John Pfaff‏ @JohnFPfaff 23 Jun 2016
      Replying to @JohnFPfaff

      4A. Maybe it’s judges, maybe it’s algos. Not the point here (though history in psych at least is… pretty clear). Just need a better debate.

      3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. John Pfaff‏ @JohnFPfaff 23 Jun 2016
      Replying to @JohnFPfaff

      4B. Judges and algos make same sort of population-based statistical decisions, even if judges think otherwise. Algos just more transparent.

      1 reply 1 retweet 0 likes
    7. John Pfaff‏ @JohnFPfaff 23 Jun 2016
      Replying to @JohnFPfaff

      5. So debate has to be over which has less bias now, which can be trained/programmed to have less bias going forward. (Bet algos win #2.)

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. John Pfaff‏ @JohnFPfaff 23 Jun 2016
      Replying to @JohnFPfaff

      6. That’s what made ProPublica article so frustrating: gave error rates for model, not for judges. Impossible to make comparative assessment

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    9. John Pfaff‏ @JohnFPfaff 23 Jun 2016
      Replying to @JohnFPfaff

      7. But proprietary point is big. Algos used by the govt should not be secret. Esp. at this early stage, need a good public debate abt them.

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    10. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 23 Jun 2016
      Replying to @JohnFPfaff

      That human judgment has issues is true; but at least widely understood. Here, computation is presented as objective, neutral.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 23 Jun 2016
      Replying to @zeynep @JohnFPfaff

      Computation has role as a tool to balance out human judgement—but this example shows its fetishization may make things worse.

      8:55 AM - 23 Jun 2016
      • 2 Likes
      • Ryan Boren Angela Taylor
      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 23 Jun 2016
          Replying to @zeynep @JohnFPfaff

          Go from world of human judgment that we understand has huge problems to computerization that people treat like infallible magic?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. John Pfaff‏ @JohnFPfaff 23 Jun 2016
          Replying to @zeynep

          At least in law, this rarely the case: judgment still viewed as ideal, algos viewed w deep suspicion. Error in opposite direction. @zeynep

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Show replies
        1. John Pfaff‏ @JohnFPfaff 23 Jun 2016
          Replying to @zeynep

          In psych, at least, results suggest algo > algo + judgment > judgment. In long run, tools will be more than a balance. @zeynep

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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