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zeynep's profile
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
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@zeynep

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zeynep tufekciVerified account

@zeynep

Complex systems, wicked problems. Society, technology, science and more. @UNC professor. @NYTimes columnist. My newsletter is @insight: http://www.theinsight.org 

floating in a most peculiar way
theinsight.org
Joined August 2009

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    1. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 24 Sep 2015

      Hmm. I'm for open code broadly but good testing of output is cheaper & much more doable than catching cheating in millions-of-line codebase.

      4 replies 2 retweets 6 likes
    2. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 24 Sep 2015
      Replying to @zeynep

      For VW, most likely to work and scalable solution was proper testing in the wild. DMCA shutting of research is bad but... this is also true.

      1 reply 1 retweet 1 like
    3. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 24 Sep 2015
      Replying to @zeynep

      As more objects get code, I don't see how we get a scaleable army of people figuring out all the messy code. But we can always test outputs.

      2 replies 1 retweet 2 likes
    4. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 24 Sep 2015
      Replying to @zeynep

      Also, umm, people who write original code can't sometimes figure out what that subroutine exactly does. 😂😂 Reverse engineering isn't easy.

      3 replies 1 retweet 3 likes
    5. Eleanor Saitta‏ @Dymaxion 24 Sep 2015
      Replying to @zeynep

      .@zeynep If the original authors don't understand their code, it has zero place in a life-safety system. That's ludicrous.

      3 replies 1 retweet 4 likes
    6. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 24 Sep 2015
      Replying to @Dymaxion

      @Dymaxion After they've written it, and it's in a huge codebase, it takes time for even original authors to get up to speed.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    7. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 24 Sep 2015
      Replying to @zeynep

      @Dymaxion Reverse engineering code to uncover (hidden) cheating is a very hard thing, much harder than writing code. This is .. just true.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    8. Eleanor Saitta‏ @Dymaxion 24 Sep 2015
      Replying to @zeynep

      @zeynep I did this for a living for a decade. I am aware how hard it is and isn't. And no, it's not always that much harder.

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    9. Matt Barnard‏ @matt_barn 24 Sep 2015
      Replying to @Dymaxion

      @Dymaxion @zeynep Code automatically generated from mathematical models may not be human-understandable at all.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Eleanor Saitta‏ @Dymaxion 24 Sep 2015
      Replying to @matt_barn

      @matt_barn @zeynep It takes a lot more work to reverse, I'll give you that. In that case, they should be required to make models available.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 24 Sep 2015
      Replying to @Dymaxion

      @Dymaxion @matt_barn IMO we need new ways of generating trails. Maybe hard-to-tamper (cryptographically signed) logs of critical outputs.

      7:28 AM - 24 Sep 2015
      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 24 Sep 2015
          Replying to @zeynep

          @Dymaxion @matt_barn For example: encrypted log of all emissions on all cars at all times, which pings regulator based on patterns etc.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Pierce Nichols‏ @nocleverhandle 24 Sep 2015
          Replying to @zeynep

          @zeynep @Dymaxion @matt_barn If I have logs of all your car's emissions, that means I know exactly how you drove and a good idea of where.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Show replies
        1. New conversation
        2. Eleanor Saitta‏ @Dymaxion 24 Sep 2015
          Replying to @zeynep

          .@zeynep @matt_barn In this specific case? Maybe. But in general, more code the manufacturer can tamper with won't fix the issue.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 24 Sep 2015
          Replying to @Dymaxion

          @Dymaxion @matt_barn Also, random (but in the wild) testing is a great method since we have solid understanding of such stats & error bars.

          3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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