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zeynep's profile
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
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@zeynep

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zeynep tufekciVerified account

@zeynep

Complex systems, wicked problems. Society, technology, science and more. @UNC professor. @NYTimes columnist. My newsletter is @insight: http://www.theinsight.org 

floating in a most peculiar way
theinsight.org
Joined August 2009

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    1. Bruno Maçães‏Verified account @MacaesBruno Jan 1

      The Ottoman millet system remains one of the best ways to organize a genuinely plural society, arguably superior to the liberal solutionpic.twitter.com/1FPaI1vbGI

      279 replies 114 retweets 623 likes
      Show this thread
    2. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep Jan 2
      Replying to @MacaesBruno

      Excuse me? 👀

      3 replies 1 retweet 141 likes
    3. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep Jan 2
      Replying to @zeynep @MacaesBruno

      You would like the religious authorities in whichever group I was born into to have absolute power over me and have a hierarchy of rights between different religious groups? As superior to liberal societies for pluralism???

      2 replies 2 retweets 108 likes
    4. Radu Manolescu‏ @radumanolescu Jan 2
      Replying to @zeynep @MacaesBruno

      Not the religious authorities. But we could have a “Red Corp” & a “Blue Corp” set up as “lifestyle corporations” with nation-wide reach & some delegated powers for contentious items: abortion, taxation, education, etc. Different laws for diff lifestyles, as opposed to geography.

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    5. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep Jan 2
      Replying to @radumanolescu @MacaesBruno

      That’s not pluralism. Multiple theocracies isn’t pluralism. How is this even complicated?

      1 reply 1 retweet 39 likes
    6. Radu Manolescu‏ @radumanolescu Jan 2
      Replying to @zeynep @MacaesBruno

      I said “NOT the religious authorities”. But there are tensions btw those who want abortion banned vs permitted, history taught straight or “White-triumphalist”, high vs low socialization, etc. - that don’t fall neatly on state borders, hence electoral (soon: violent) battles.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    7. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep Jan 2
      Replying to @radumanolescu @MacaesBruno

      So, banning rights for subgroups that one is stuck in by virtue of birth or community is now a superior form of pluralism to one based on individual rights in liberal societies? I think a month in such a society in the wrong group would cure people of this absurd delusion.

      1 reply 0 retweets 27 likes
    8. Radu Manolescu‏ @radumanolescu Jan 2
      Replying to @zeynep @MacaesBruno

      No one would be banning rights. On the contrary: each person would choose a lifestyle, pay (some) tax to the lifestyle corp, get some services (healthcare, education) from the corp & be subject to their laws (abortion, marijuana, etc). Some things (defense, roads) stay federal.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    9. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep Jan 2
      Replying to @radumanolescu @MacaesBruno

      Ah, great, so people get to switch jurisprudence at will? Husband gets bored of wife, switches to bigamy jurisprudence, borrower decides to switch to usury is not allowed. Opportunists set up "everything goes" jurisprudences as they want. Excellent pluralism.

      1 reply 0 retweets 22 likes
    10. Radu Manolescu‏ @radumanolescu Jan 2
      Replying to @zeynep @MacaesBruno

      Details for switching lifestyle would need to be worked out, including paying back dues, etc. But we already have 50 state legislations + one federal, & we are managing. Vice-versa: why would living in TX determine whether a woman has repro rights? How does that make sense?

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep Jan 2
      Replying to @radumanolescu @MacaesBruno

      Federalism has tensions but unlike the millet system, it is subject to *elections* at the federal and state level, and is superseded by the national law and institutions, both of which make it nothing like the millet system. How is this not obvious?

      10:15 AM - 2 Jan 2022
      • 24 Likes
      • hbd chick NGG Haig Ճաք šunto zlatiborac AX Vasilis Trigkas max seunik Andy PhDog
      1 reply 0 retweets 24 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Radu Manolescu‏ @radumanolescu Jan 2
          Replying to @zeynep @MacaesBruno

          The millet system was Bruno’s example. We’ve come a long way since Ottomans. Organizing jurisdictions by territory was probably the only practical way before computers. We can build more sophisticated societies now. Territorial jurisdictions don’t make sense in globalization age.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        3. Nick Brumfield‏ @NickJBrumfield Jan 2
          Replying to @radumanolescu @zeynep @MacaesBruno

          What do we do when a person from blue corp wants to marry someone from red corp? Or kills them? Or has a land dispute? A reason why territorially-defined jurisdictions is useful is because most of life takes place in realspace.

          2 replies 0 retweets 6 likes
        4. Show replies

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