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zeynep's profile
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
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@zeynep

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zeynep tufekciVerified account

@zeynep

Complex systems, wicked problems. Society, technology, science and more. @UNC professor. @NYTimes columnist. My newsletter is @insight: http://www.theinsight.org 

floating in a most peculiar way
theinsight.org
Joined August 2009

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    1. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 29 Dec 2021

      Genuine question. I once had a medical doctor who swore by saline nose/throat gargling for upper respiratory tract illnesses—he was a by the book, orthodox, evidence-based doc. I did not research it. Anyone know the evidentiary status of his claim? I did not see a recent review.

      137 replies 29 retweets 470 likes
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    2. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 29 Dec 2021

      I was thinking about it not just because Omicron is more upper-respiratory, but just that mechanical processes are probably not as interesting for research & publication. (Then again hand-washing is an obvious mechanical process that took a long-time to establish and does work.)

      13 replies 1 retweet 144 likes
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    3. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 29 Dec 2021

      zeynep tufekci Retweeted Kevin Donato

      Alright, we have a 2015 review and the answer is maybe yes but don't know. Only 5 randomized studies ever done, apparently. (Found some mild benefit but with so few, hard to tell either way). I always wonder why such common claims don't get trialed more.https://twitter.com/WhatMyWifeYells/status/1476338701823213574 …

      zeynep tufekci added,

      Kevin Donato @WhatMyWifeYells
      Replying to @themaltesemama @zeynep
      It's for the wrong condition. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25892369/  is the latest Cochrane review of upper respiratory saline treatment that I've seen (2015).
      22 replies 5 retweets 160 likes
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    4. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 29 Dec 2021

      zeynep tufekci Retweeted Aartik Sarma

      Okay, adding the reviews we do have, and one COVID related preprint coming up.https://twitter.com/AartikSarma/status/1476342990176075776 …

      zeynep tufekci added,

      Aartik Sarma @AartikSarma
      Replying to @zeynep
      Evidence is limited. Some pediatrics studies found ⬇️symptoms (2020) : https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32312677/  Evidence is weaker in adults (2015): https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25892369/  Pilot study in 2019 found ⬇️symptoms, ⬇️ viral shedding, but larger studies required: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30705369/ 
      1 reply 2 retweets 66 likes
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    5. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 29 Dec 2021

      And here's a preprint. It has a positive finding, but do note it is tiny sample and there is no for-real control group—just comparison to national rates of hospitalization. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.16.21262044v3 … https://twitter.com/jpdleblanc/status/1476342862405111811 …pic.twitter.com/4lzlnxfvJY

      7 replies 3 retweets 62 likes
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    6. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 29 Dec 2021

      Okay, here's a 2019 study. Same encouraging findings, same small sample, same "need a bigger trial" recommendation. https://twitter.com/microlabdoc/status/1476346209291886595 …pic.twitter.com/YP39ZOkIiW

      5 replies 5 retweets 69 likes
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    7. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 29 Dec 2021

      I have the most sincere respect for the power of both placebo and nocebo—aka don't mess with folk medicine—but I can't help but get curious about trials for things with plausibility, like this.

      8 replies 1 retweet 132 likes
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    8. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 29 Dec 2021

      zeynep tufekci Retweeted Amy Heckathorn

      Btw, I asked out of curiosity, and I know this is a common folk-remedy in some cultures but... just in case anyone is encountering this with a practical mindset. DO NOTE THE FOLLOWING. Rinsing nasal passages with tap/contaminated water has real risks!https://twitter.com/heckathorn_amy/status/1476353795927904259 …

      zeynep tufekci added,

      Amy Heckathorn @heckathorn_amy
      Replying to @RobbDawson4 @specterm @zeynep
      YES! Or boiled water. Two people in Louisiana used tap water a few years ago and died from a brain eating amoeba. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tap-water-in-neti-pots-behind-two-brain-eating-amoeba-deaths-in-2011-investigation-finds/ …
      15 replies 11 retweets 143 likes
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    9. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 30 Dec 2021

      zeynep tufekci Retweeted Dr. Jennifer BLM Glass

      Just because I find rigorous testing of folk-remedies interesting… Someone could do a quasi-experiment by using rapid tests like this, but with some folks using rinse/gargle, some not, and also do before/after comparisons (after waiting an hour or so, as per test instructions).https://twitter.com/methanoJen/status/1476276591219064836 …

      zeynep tufekci added,

      Dr. Jennifer BLM Glass @methanoJen
      Day 10 of 3x-Pfizer-vaxxed #COVID19 breakthrough case. Still testing faintly +ve. I analyzed all nine of my rapid antigen tests w/ ImageJ & plotted the ratio of the area of sample to the area of control. Saw a linear relationship (R2=0.99) from day 2-10: pic.twitter.com/8vR6r5ygwz
      Show this thread
      6 replies 3 retweets 59 likes
      Show this thread
      zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 30 Dec 2021

      By the way, why rigorously test folk-remedies? First: sometimes there’s unintended harm you can uncover only through proper trial. Second: if beneficial, yeay! Third: if no effect found? It seems that the placebo benefit is essentially unshakable, so no harm in finding no effect.

      9:03 AM - 30 Dec 2021
      • 5 Retweets
      • 111 Likes
      • Natanael, tech custodial engineer Gail Nevin Shakalaka Gabriel Lawson-Duck P. Ygramul Maarten Mood 🥄 Geoffrey Hart #BLM IsabellaViendalmare
      15 replies 5 retweets 111 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Jonathan Portes‏ @jdportes 30 Dec 2021
          Replying to @zeynep

          presumably very hard for an RCT to rule out *all* heterogeneous treatment effects, so it's not irrational to say "it seems to work for me despite the lack of evidence"

          2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        3. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 30 Dec 2021
          Replying to @jdportes

          It is not irrational, though a trial could uncover harms. (The studies we do have on this tend to find no effect or mild benefit (though usually underpowered) so I think harm is less likely in this case, but not so for all folk-remedies.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        4. End of conversation
        1. C. V.‏ @christi05061152 30 Dec 2021
          Replying to @zeynep

          Would it have to be a school that tests this? I don't see a pharmaceutical company doing this.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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        2. Banda ancha p'todos‏ @juanludlow 30 Dec 2021
          Replying to @zeynep

          You are talking about ivermectine?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 30 Dec 2021
          Replying to @juanludlow

          That one has been repeatedly trialed, no convincing evidence of any benefit. Dexa and fluvoxamine, the other way around.

          1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
        4. Show replies
        1. Julie Liss‏ @julie_liss 30 Dec 2021
          Replying to @zeynep

          It's not as sexy to research treatments for colds/mere annoyances, as for cancer and such. And saline is not as sexy as high-tech meds. I wonder how much of medical research is driven by these considerations.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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        1. Paul Bleicher‏ @pbleic 30 Dec 2021
          Replying to @zeynep

          A properly performed and powered randomized, double blind clinical trial is a very expensive enterprise. Anything less is going to likely be unhelpful. So, researchers usually line up things where it is bigger impact or (if commercial) could lead to a new drug (use).

          0 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
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        2. Thomas Zinnen‏ @tmzinnen 30 Dec 2021
          Replying to @zeynep

          Yes. Resonates with "Arrowsmith" from 1925. However, any ineffective medicine--folk, homeopathic or pharmaceutic--that diverts a person from taking effective medicines is a detriment to the person and in the case of infectious diseases, a detriment to the population.pic.twitter.com/Iwtcj0vzxH

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Natanael, tech custodial engineer‏ @Natanael_L Jan 2
          Replying to @tmzinnen @zeynep

          In this case we are seeing people volunteer as controls 🤷‍♂️ For proper medical studies, controls for severe disease is usually just another treatment with fairly well understood effects.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        4. End of conversation
        1. Mike Srsic‏ @mikesrsic 30 Dec 2021
          Replying to @zeynep

          Here's a current clinical trial with links to other recent research...https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04802408 …

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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