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zeynep's profile
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
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@zeynep

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zeynep tufekciVerified account

@zeynep

Complex systems, wicked problems. Society, technology, science and more. @UNC professor. @NYTimes columnist. My newsletter is @insight: http://www.theinsight.org 

floating in a most peculiar way
theinsight.org
Joined August 2009

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    1. Prof. Jose-Luis Jimenez‏Verified account @jljcolorado 20 Dec 2021
      Replying to @Merz @kprather88 and

      If that was the case, transmission would be down ~x2 from indoors to outdoors. But it goes down x20 9https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33249484/), which implies aerosol dominates. How do you explain x20 w/ droplets?

      1 reply 5 retweets 99 likes
    2. Alex Merz‏ @Merz 20 Dec 2021
      Replying to @jljcolorado @kprather88 and

      What a curious claim. I'd expect transmission to drop dramatically via either mechanism, outdoors.

      2 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
    3. Prof. Jose-Luis Jimenez‏Verified account @jljcolorado 20 Dec 2021
      Replying to @Merz @kprather88 and

      Prof. Jose-Luis Jimenez Retweeted Prof. Jose-Luis Jimenez

      It is physics. Droplets are projectiles, larger than 0.3 mm when talking. They are unaffected by air currents, unless it is extremely windy. So they'll do the same indoors and outdoors. There are papers on this, but I reviewed the physics on this thread:https://twitter.com/jljcolorado/status/1292880342227984385 …

      Prof. Jose-Luis Jimenez added,

      Prof. Jose-Luis JimenezVerified account @jljcolorado
      1/ Aerosols, droplets, & “flexible droplets” Trying to clarify key aspects. Details complex, give bottom lines 1st: Bottom line 1: If fall within 1-2 m of the person (WHO or CDC droplets), then **have to** infect by ballistic impact (“angry birds”). Cannot infect by inhalation pic.twitter.com/rixqF4iSrI
      Show this thread
      1 reply 10 retweets 118 likes
    4. Prof. Jose-Luis Jimenez‏Verified account @jljcolorado 20 Dec 2021
      Replying to @jljcolorado @Merz and

      The key is that if they can be inhaled, they are < 100 microns. And then they stay on the air > 1 m and do NOT behave like ballistic droplets. Sometimes ppl resort to droplets that behave like aerosols, but then they are still "droplets". But there is no such thing, unphysical

      2 replies 2 retweets 78 likes
    5. Alex Merz‏ @Merz 20 Dec 2021
      Replying to @jljcolorado @kprather88 and

      Nothing in that thread explains why you'd expect outdoor transmission to drop by only 2x if the mechanism is droplet transmission.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    6. Alex Merz‏ @Merz 20 Dec 2021
      Replying to @Merz @jljcolorado and

      Among other things, people tend to be further apart outdoors, and they tend to be outdoors when it's sunny. Pyrimidine dimers are a thing.

      5 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    7. Prof. Jose-Luis Jimenez‏Verified account @jljcolorado 20 Dec 2021
      Replying to @Merz @kprather88 and

      I have not found data to substantiate that the conversational distance is higher outdoors than outdoors. And UV radiation inactivates the virus, but in 5-30 min, too slow too matter.

      6 replies 3 retweets 97 likes
    8. Alex Merz‏ @Merz 20 Dec 2021
      Replying to @jljcolorado @kprather88 and

      Halftimes far shorter than 5-30 minutes have been reported.

      3 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    9. Alex Merz‏ @Merz 20 Dec 2021
      Replying to @Merz @jljcolorado and

      "I have not found data to substantiate that the conversational distance is higher outdoors than outdoors." And that's just silly.

      4 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    10. gardengirl778‏ @gardengirl778 20 Dec 2021
      Replying to @Merz @jljcolorado and

      No, it isn’t. Linguists study how far apart people in various cultures stand when speaking, a well studied topic and never in all my reading on that topic have any noted outdoors people stand further when speaking to one another in normal conversation.

      1 reply 0 retweets 14 likes
      zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 20 Dec 2021
      Replying to @gardengirl778 @Merz and

      Not just that, because this has indeed been studied very well, interpersonal closeness produces *less* discomfort outdoors so people can get closer, and decades of research and measurement find that there is no indoor close/outdoor apart rule.

      4:34 PM - 20 Dec 2021
      • 20 Likes
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      3 replies 0 retweets 20 likes
        1. Alex Merz‏ @Merz 20 Dec 2021
          Replying to @zeynep @gardengirl778 and

          Really, Zeynep? And the duration and orientation (face to face vs side by side, walking) is the same, too? I don't buy it.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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        2. Prof. Jose-Luis Jimenez‏Verified account @jljcolorado 20 Dec 2021
          Replying to @zeynep @gardengirl778 and

          Do you have any links to that research? I've looked for it but not found it, probably didn't quite know how to search, keywords etc.

          1 reply 0 retweets 7 likes
        3. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 20 Dec 2021
          Replying to @jljcolorado @gardengirl778 and

          Yep. Will email lit review. "Conversational space" and "personal space" are keywords—it's a very well-studied area of sociolinguistics, and despite people making up stuff on this thread, there's decades of research. Varies by culture, gender-grouping, noise, vertical space etc.

          1 reply 0 retweets 18 likes
        4. Show replies
        1. New conversation
        2. Alex Merz‏ @Merz 21 Dec 2021
          Replying to @zeynep @gardengirl778 and

          Where does the 2x figure (inside vs. outside) for droplet transmission come from? Show me the reference, Zeynep.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. gardengirl778‏ @gardengirl778 21 Dec 2021
          Replying to @Merz @zeynep and

          I could be wrong but I am guessing no matter how much proof you ever get, you will not back down or quit or question yourself or think you were ever in any way wrong so I’m guessing the scientists might give up on this conversation.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Show replies

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