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zeynep's profile
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
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@zeynep

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zeynep tufekciVerified account

@zeynep

Complex systems, wicked problems. Society, technology, science and more. @UNC professor. @NYTimes columnist. My newsletter is @insight: http://www.theinsight.org 

floating in a most peculiar way
theinsight.org
Joined August 2009

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    1. Boaz Barak‏ @boazbaraktcs 5 Nov 2021

      Statistics is very important, and at Harvard CS we recently prioritized probability over multivariate calculus. But @zeynep is right that done right, stats is *harder* than calculus, and without single-variable calculus students can’t even parse statistics’ most basic functions: https://twitter.com/zeynep/status/1456636720137621511 …pic.twitter.com/5usdBTb3Nh

      24 replies 51 retweets 424 likes
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    2. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 6 Nov 2021
      Replying to @boazbaraktcs

      Heh. I wasn't even talking about statistical functions. But there is a belief there that statistics is "easier" partly because some concepts can be used in life without advanced math—but, in reality, that makes it *harder* to teach, if the goal is sound inference and reasoning.

      2 replies 1 retweet 39 likes
      zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 6 Nov 2021
      Replying to @zeynep @boazbaraktcs

      So, I'm all for teaching statistics and probability more and earlier—and regardless of the "calculus versus" arguments which I wasn't even getting into. But it is *not* a lightweight, breezy subject, and swapping one hard topic with another isn't how you address achievement gaps.

      8:16 AM - 6 Nov 2021
      • 17 Likes
      • Kimi moengke Farhad Mohsin Two all the way, a coffee milk, and a Del's Paul Crowley Carsten Baum Boaz Barak Clément Canonne
      4 replies 0 retweets 17 likes
        1. w.o.‏ @wowwowza 6 Nov 2021
          Replying to @zeynep @boazbaraktcs

          People have been advocating it for years because kids need a solid introduction to inference and reasoning, or even just the ability to read odds or the fine print of a poll. The cynic in me thinks some advocates are trying to hitch it to DEI on debatable grounds to get it done.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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        1. Boaz Barak‏ @boazbaraktcs 7 Nov 2021
          Replying to @zeynep

          You are right in the sense that calculus is a way to formalize concepts we already knew intuitively (eg that at close enough range functions look “flat”). Statistics is often about using formal methods to see why our preconceived intuitions were *wrong*

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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        2. Boaz Barak‏ @boazbaraktcs 7 Nov 2021
          Replying to @zeynep

          In general, merely swapping a hard course with an easier one does not address achievement gaps. It may artificially reduce gaps in grades at high school, but students will be less prepared for college.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        3. Ajay Divakaran‏ @ajaydiv 7 Nov 2021
          Replying to @boazbaraktcs @zeynep

          Thanks for the civil and thought provoking discussion. I agree with Boaz that achievement gaps need to be addressed not just defined out of existence. I taught an intro to math using Maple to incoming freshmen and was shocked by the lack of preparation.

          0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        4. End of conversation
        1. New conversation
        2. Boaz Barak‏ @boazbaraktcs 8 Nov 2021
          Replying to @zeynep

          Btw it turns out they didn’t really reduce achievement gaps in San Francisco https://edsource.org/2021/one-districts-faulty-data-shouldnt-drive-californias-math-policy/663374 …pic.twitter.com/OBzpbVrunt

          2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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