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zeynep's profile
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
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@zeynep

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zeynep tufekciVerified account

@zeynep

Complex systems, wicked problems. Society, technology, science and more. @UNC professor. @NYTimes columnist. My newsletter is @insight: http://www.theinsight.org 

floating in a most peculiar way
theinsight.org
Joined August 2009

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    1. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 5 Nov 2021

      California wants to replace calculus with statistics and "data science"??? I'm a fan of teaching more statistics, but learning that at a meaningful, useful level is way, way, way harder than for calculus. And no, "data science" isn't that kind of a thing. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/04/us/california-math-curriculum-guidelines.htm …pic.twitter.com/Wo2PVQAONC

      179 replies 161 retweets 1,312 likes
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    2. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 5 Nov 2021

      Switching away from calculus to statistics and "data science" is framed as "closing the racial and socioeconomic disparities in achievement that persist at every level of math education." I guess these people don't know much about either topic? Teaching statistics is very thorny.

      26 replies 19 retweets 344 likes
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    3. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 5 Nov 2021

      Sorry, broken link.https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/04/us/california-math-curriculum-guidelines.html …

      7 replies 7 retweets 83 likes
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    4. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 5 Nov 2021

      zeynep tufekci Retweeted John Anderson

      I'm all *for* teaching statistics, in general, and also probability. But these people seem to think it's easier to teach it meaningfully at the introductory level (i.e. high school) than calculus? Statistics, if it is to be useful, is not a simple topic.https://twitter.com/truth_campaign/status/1456639939681062913 …

      zeynep tufekci added,

      John Anderson @truth_campaign
      Replying to @zeynep
      Honestly, stats is more useful to most people than calc, but I think they should also offer calc.
      32 replies 21 retweets 294 likes
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    5. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 5 Nov 2021

      (Again: I'm not talking about calculus versus statistics for advanced work! Or which one is more useful. I'm just surprised that they think "statistics" will solve gaps in achievement simply because it's not calculus. "Data science" in that role, otoh, only deserves an eye-roll.)

      14 replies 12 retweets 185 likes
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    6. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 5 Nov 2021

      My fellow academics/techies are arguing about which one is more useful for what or do you need calculus for statistics etc. Those are very *different* questions. These people think they can swap out calculus with statistics or with "data science"🙄 to close achievement gaps.

      17 replies 12 retweets 148 likes
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      zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 5 Nov 2021

      zeynep tufekci Retweeted

      This is a better formulation. I'm all for more stats/probability, and earlier, and also more later but the reason we teach it—inference and reasoning—requires real work. Statistics is not math that's easier than calculus—or whatever these people think. https://twitter.com/jbakcoleman/status/1456652452804001796 …

      zeynep tufekci added,

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      9:30 AM - 5 Nov 2021
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      18 replies 23 retweets 152 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Mike Anderson‏ @MikeAndersonEsq 5 Nov 2021
          Replying to @zeynep

          "Statistics is not math that's easier than calculus" True but stats can be taught with pretty basic math. I taught stats/prob using nothing more than first-year algebra. The concepts can be difficult but math itself is not an obstacle. Those who fear calculus can avoid it. Huge.

          0 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
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        1. Watchingwheels7‏ @Watchingwheels7 5 Nov 2021
          Replying to @zeynep

          But bad stats is easier to teach than calculus. You CAN'T teach calculus without derivatives and integrals. In contrast, you can teach a gutted statistics and still claim you're teaching statistics. (And students will still not understand why each coin toss is independent event)

          0 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
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        1. masterlongevity‏ @masterlongevity 5 Nov 2021
          Replying to @zeynep

          great thread. INtro to Statistics/probabilty should be taught in middle school w/ further options in high school. having kids graduate high school w/ 3 semesters of statistics would be amazing, and would be a great way for american public to understand and fight misinformation

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        2. Ben Bellows‏ @benbellows 5 Nov 2021
          Replying to @zeynep

          Why would it have to do with ease in teaching? Being numerate in stats is a life skill. Calculus is an industry skill.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        3. Matthew Hamilton‏ @mwhamiltonian 5 Nov 2021
          Replying to @benbellows @zeynep

          Ben, I don’t think we would disagree much on Zeynep’s point, but I can’t let “calculus is an industry skill” pass without comment. Calculus is the foundation of our most basic descriptions of the world, and it underlies statistics.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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        2. Joe (Pro environment) Blow‏ @MREathome 6 Nov 2021
          Replying to @bkdavs @zeynep

          Calculus is never going to be replaced but it's certainly a waste of time for many kids who know they are not going into STEM but are college track. I agree that an understanding of data and stats is useful for everyone these days.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. End of conversation
        1. not a math major‏ @AlephNuul 5 Nov 2021
          Replying to @zeynep

          We should teach exactly enough probability for people to stop yelling at Nate Silver for reporting probabilities other than 0% and 100%

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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        2. Joe (Pro environment) Blow‏ @MREathome 6 Nov 2021
          Replying to @nihilismabyss @zeynep @ExAstrisUmbra

          There are some very simple levels of abstract reasoning that can be taught at a younger age. Great for those young brains to stretch and problem solve.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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