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zeynep's profile
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
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zeynep tufekciVerified account

@zeynep

Complex systems, wicked problems. Society, technology, science and more. @UNC professor. @NYTimes columnist. My newsletter is @insight: http://www.theinsight.org 

floating in a most peculiar way
theinsight.org
Joined August 2009

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    1. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 5 Nov 2021

      California wants to replace calculus with statistics and "data science"??? I'm a fan of teaching more statistics, but learning that at a meaningful, useful level is way, way, way harder than for calculus. And no, "data science" isn't that kind of a thing. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/04/us/california-math-curriculum-guidelines.htm …pic.twitter.com/Wo2PVQAONC

      179 replies 161 retweets 1,312 likes
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    2. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 5 Nov 2021

      Switching away from calculus to statistics and "data science" is framed as "closing the racial and socioeconomic disparities in achievement that persist at every level of math education." I guess these people don't know much about either topic? Teaching statistics is very thorny.

      26 replies 19 retweets 344 likes
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    3. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 5 Nov 2021

      Sorry, broken link.https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/04/us/california-math-curriculum-guidelines.html …

      7 replies 7 retweets 83 likes
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    4. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 5 Nov 2021

      zeynep tufekci Retweeted John Anderson

      I'm all *for* teaching statistics, in general, and also probability. But these people seem to think it's easier to teach it meaningfully at the introductory level (i.e. high school) than calculus? Statistics, if it is to be useful, is not a simple topic.https://twitter.com/truth_campaign/status/1456639939681062913 …

      zeynep tufekci added,

      John Anderson @truth_campaign
      Replying to @zeynep
      Honestly, stats is more useful to most people than calc, but I think they should also offer calc.
      32 replies 21 retweets 294 likes
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    5. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 5 Nov 2021

      (Again: I'm not talking about calculus versus statistics for advanced work! Or which one is more useful. I'm just surprised that they think "statistics" will solve gaps in achievement simply because it's not calculus. "Data science" in that role, otoh, only deserves an eye-roll.)

      14 replies 12 retweets 185 likes
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      zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 5 Nov 2021

      My fellow academics/techies are arguing about which one is more useful for what or do you need calculus for statistics etc. Those are very *different* questions. These people think they can swap out calculus with statistics or with "data science"🙄 to close achievement gaps.

      8:31 AM - 5 Nov 2021
      • 12 Retweets
      • 148 Likes
      • Bilal Ozbinzet Akiva FriedmanRosner ashen 🌐 smol business uwuner Sam Pullen Christina Baze, Ph.D. Bruegel deez Corb Erik Paulson
      17 replies 12 retweets 148 likes
        1. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 5 Nov 2021

          zeynep tufekci Retweeted

          This is a better formulation. I'm all for more stats/probability, and earlier, and also more later but the reason we teach it—inference and reasoning—requires real work. Statistics is not math that's easier than calculus—or whatever these people think. https://twitter.com/jbakcoleman/status/1456652452804001796 …

          zeynep tufekci added,

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          18 replies 23 retweets 152 likes
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        1. Yaron (Ron) Minsky‏ @yminsky 5 Nov 2021
          Replying to @zeynep

          Totally agreed that this is not a way to cut achievement gaps. That just seems like wishful thinking. That said, I do think calculus is too prominent in the high school curriculum, and stats could be a big improvement. Maybe this is just dishonest marketing for a good idea.

          0 replies 0 retweets 7 likes
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        2. OttarDaniels‏ @DanielsOttar 5 Nov 2021
          Replying to @zeynep

          Mathematician here, currently teaching intro statistics to first year business majors. This course would be *way* easier for them if they had a solid understanding of basic calculus.

          1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
        3. OttarDaniels‏ @DanielsOttar 5 Nov 2021
          Replying to @DanielsOttar @zeynep

          What high schools could do, though, is to teach 'graph literacy': How to read a bar chart in a newspaper article and draw conclusions from it, how to visualise data from a spreadsheet in various ways, etc. I have been surprised by how much they struggle with this.

          0 replies 1 retweet 10 likes
        4. End of conversation
        1. Aziz Muqaddam. PhD‏ @AzizMedia 5 Nov 2021
          Replying to @zeynep

          I think their argument is that statistics could be made more relatable and easy to practice, rather than abstract calc, which would then make more students engage with math. I am not sure if I agree, but it’s a plausible idea

          0 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
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        1. Anne‏ @MtAiryGrl 5 Nov 2021
          Replying to @zeynep

          You definitely need lagrangians for stats. So, yep, you need calc.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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        1. colin white‏ @whitewyatt 5 Nov 2021
          Replying to @zeynep

          I agree with your critique. Though I do think it makes sense to get some stats edu in early, but their approach is wrong. Also earlier should be the physics that relates to calculus, ie learn newtonian mechanics before derivatives and integrals. Actual before theoretical.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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        2. zooko ❤ⓩ 🛡 🦓 🦓 🦓‏ @zooko 5 Nov 2021
          Replying to @zeynep

          Sorry, but how is that a different question? Isn’t whether swapping it out will close achievement gaps determined by how useful it is and whether it is necessary to understand other branches of math?

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. zooko ❤ⓩ 🛡 🦓 🦓 🦓‏ @zooko 5 Nov 2021
          Replying to @zooko @zeynep

          Signed, one of your fellow academics/techies

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. End of conversation
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        2. Zoelle Egner‏ @zoelle 5 Nov 2021
          Replying to @zeynep

          It sounded to me (from reading the draft, not the NYT summary) that the issue is not "stats is easier" but "there are fewer prereqs you have to be tracked for years earlier" - so easier to give more kids the opp to take an 'advanced' class that is useful for college admissions

          1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
        3. Zoelle Egner‏ @zoelle 5 Nov 2021
          Replying to @zoelle @zeynep

          It also didn't sound like replacement, so much as 'provide alternatives that will be viewed as also 'advanced' in *addition* to calc' to help address the opportunity gap for college admissions

          0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        4. End of conversation

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