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zeynep's profile
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
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@zeynep

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zeynep tufekciVerified account

@zeynep

Complex systems, wicked problems. Society, technology, science and more. @UNC professor. @NYTimes columnist. My newsletter is @insight: http://www.theinsight.org 

floating in a most peculiar way
theinsight.org
Joined August 2009

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    1. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 5 Nov 2021

      California wants to replace calculus with statistics and "data science"??? I'm a fan of teaching more statistics, but learning that at a meaningful, useful level is way, way, way harder than for calculus. And no, "data science" isn't that kind of a thing. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/04/us/california-math-curriculum-guidelines.htm …pic.twitter.com/Wo2PVQAONC

      179 replies 161 retweets 1,312 likes
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    2. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 5 Nov 2021

      Switching away from calculus to statistics and "data science" is framed as "closing the racial and socioeconomic disparities in achievement that persist at every level of math education." I guess these people don't know much about either topic? Teaching statistics is very thorny.

      26 replies 19 retweets 344 likes
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    3. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 5 Nov 2021

      Sorry, broken link.https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/04/us/california-math-curriculum-guidelines.html …

      7 replies 7 retweets 83 likes
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    4. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 5 Nov 2021

      zeynep tufekci Retweeted John Anderson

      I'm all *for* teaching statistics, in general, and also probability. But these people seem to think it's easier to teach it meaningfully at the introductory level (i.e. high school) than calculus? Statistics, if it is to be useful, is not a simple topic.https://twitter.com/truth_campaign/status/1456639939681062913 …

      zeynep tufekci added,

      John Anderson @truth_campaign
      Replying to @zeynep
      Honestly, stats is more useful to most people than calc, but I think they should also offer calc.
      32 replies 21 retweets 294 likes
      Show this thread
      zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 5 Nov 2021

      (Again: I'm not talking about calculus versus statistics for advanced work! Or which one is more useful. I'm just surprised that they think "statistics" will solve gaps in achievement simply because it's not calculus. "Data science" in that role, otoh, only deserves an eye-roll.)

      8:26 AM - 5 Nov 2021
      • 12 Retweets
      • 185 Likes
      • Christopher Mims 🤌 Krishna J ashen 🌐 smol business uwuner Sam Pullen David Bruegel deez Erik Paulson MiseryX ~This Machine Kills Fascists 📷
      14 replies 12 retweets 185 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 5 Nov 2021

          My fellow academics/techies are arguing about which one is more useful for what or do you need calculus for statistics etc. Those are very *different* questions. These people think they can swap out calculus with statistics or with "data science"🙄 to close achievement gaps.

          17 replies 12 retweets 148 likes
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        3. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 5 Nov 2021

          zeynep tufekci Retweeted

          This is a better formulation. I'm all for more stats/probability, and earlier, and also more later but the reason we teach it—inference and reasoning—requires real work. Statistics is not math that's easier than calculus—or whatever these people think. https://twitter.com/jbakcoleman/status/1456652452804001796 …

          zeynep tufekci added,

          This Tweet is unavailable.
          18 replies 23 retweets 152 likes
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        4. End of conversation
        1. New conversation
        2. p-brane‏ @BraneRunner 5 Nov 2021
          Replying to @zeynep

          why don’t they teach linear algebra?

          2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        3. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 5 Nov 2021
          Replying to @BraneRunner

          Interestingly, it is more useful in some ways these days, and more structural, but probably more boring at the intro level? What do you do with it till much later?

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. End of conversation
        1. Stan Cho‏ @StanCho2197 5 Nov 2021
          Replying to @zeynep

          If CA does include 'data science', let alone statistics, they had damn well better teach the subject matter very, very well. A bad grasp of statistics could screw up future generations far more profoundly than a foggy recollection of calculus.

          0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
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        1. Travis Owen‏ @alqabadai 5 Nov 2021
          Replying to @zeynep

          Only something like 15% of HSers take calculus to begin with, suspect this is really just about getting rid of the advanced classes altogether. Which I suppose is one way to “solve” the gap.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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        2. Zoë McLaren, PhD‏ @ZoeMcLaren 5 Nov 2021
          Replying to @zeynep

          I teach statistics in Baltimore to many students who do not have a strong math background. And statistics hooks them into quant methods because it has immediate real world applicability. “Stats is power” in a way that calculus isn’t. (For example helps influence policy.)

          1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
        3. Zoë McLaren, PhD‏ @ZoeMcLaren 5 Nov 2021
          Replying to @ZoeMcLaren @zeynep

          So yes, I do think it would help solve achievement gaps because it gives students something that relates to their life and that they can immediately use. (I also teach econ and see clearly how much easier it is for students when it’s taught with examples that relate to their life

          2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
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