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zeynep's profile
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
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@zeynep

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zeynep tufekciVerified account

@zeynep

Complex systems, wicked problems. Society, technology, science and more. @UNC professor. @NYTimes columnist. My newsletter is @insight: http://www.theinsight.org 

floating in a most peculiar way
theinsight.org
Joined August 2009

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    1. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 5 Nov 2021

      California wants to replace calculus with statistics and "data science"??? I'm a fan of teaching more statistics, but learning that at a meaningful, useful level is way, way, way harder than for calculus. And no, "data science" isn't that kind of a thing. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/04/us/california-math-curriculum-guidelines.htm …pic.twitter.com/Wo2PVQAONC

      179 replies 161 retweets 1,312 likes
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    2. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 5 Nov 2021

      Switching away from calculus to statistics and "data science" is framed as "closing the racial and socioeconomic disparities in achievement that persist at every level of math education." I guess these people don't know much about either topic? Teaching statistics is very thorny.

      26 replies 19 retweets 344 likes
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      zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 5 Nov 2021

      Sorry, broken link.https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/04/us/california-math-curriculum-guidelines.html …

      8:01 AM - 5 Nov 2021
      • 7 Retweets
      • 83 Likes
      • james_robinson Bruegel deez sangmin.eth @ChoimiraiSchool DonCrypto 🧊🧙‍♂️🔺 hi Dr Susan Holmes 📗💻 Leandro Cardoso tomsirolimus, vaccinated but tired Zach
      7 replies 7 retweets 83 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 5 Nov 2021

          zeynep tufekci Retweeted John Anderson

          I'm all *for* teaching statistics, in general, and also probability. But these people seem to think it's easier to teach it meaningfully at the introductory level (i.e. high school) than calculus? Statistics, if it is to be useful, is not a simple topic.https://twitter.com/truth_campaign/status/1456639939681062913 …

          zeynep tufekci added,

          John Anderson @truth_campaign
          Replying to @zeynep
          Honestly, stats is more useful to most people than calc, but I think they should also offer calc.
          32 replies 21 retweets 294 likes
          Show this thread
        3. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 5 Nov 2021

          (Again: I'm not talking about calculus versus statistics for advanced work! Or which one is more useful. I'm just surprised that they think "statistics" will solve gaps in achievement simply because it's not calculus. "Data science" in that role, otoh, only deserves an eye-roll.)

          14 replies 12 retweets 185 likes
          Show this thread
        4. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 5 Nov 2021

          My fellow academics/techies are arguing about which one is more useful for what or do you need calculus for statistics etc. Those are very *different* questions. These people think they can swap out calculus with statistics or with "data science"🙄 to close achievement gaps.

          17 replies 12 retweets 148 likes
          Show this thread
        5. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 5 Nov 2021

          zeynep tufekci Retweeted

          This is a better formulation. I'm all for more stats/probability, and earlier, and also more later but the reason we teach it—inference and reasoning—requires real work. Statistics is not math that's easier than calculus—or whatever these people think. https://twitter.com/jbakcoleman/status/1456652452804001796 …

          zeynep tufekci added,

          This Tweet is unavailable.
          18 replies 23 retweets 152 likes
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        6. End of conversation
        1. New conversation
        2. Caroline (Carrie) T. Schroeder‏ @ctschroeder 5 Nov 2021
          Replying to @zeynep

          I think there’s some blurring (possibly deliberate?) going on with the different parts of the initiative. Eliminating tracking so all kids get Algebra earlier is something designed to close the gap and I believe evidence based.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. lmaocmonman 🇺🇳 🇺🇲 🕊 🌎 ☮‏ @stopdeboosting 5 Nov 2021
          Replying to @ctschroeder @zeynep

          Closing the gap by adding a speed limit doesn't make the slowest run any faster. The goal should never be closing the gap. It should be asking how we can make the slowest faster. This is the fundamental mistake driving these bs policies.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. End of conversation
        1. New conversation
        2. MYOS‏ @MYOS4 5 Nov 2021
          Replying to @zeynep

          Unrelated to racial anything, learning stats as part of the general math path is way more important to HS students than calc. Some California schools now have a path w/ calc in 10th&11th gr then MVC in 12th. That's madness and most importantly not necessary even for STEM kids.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. MYOS‏ @MYOS4 5 Nov 2021
          Replying to @MYOS4 @zeynep

          To be clear I'm not against calculus in HS, I think it's essential in 12th gr for future stem/business majors, but all students should learn stats&data interpretation to function in the world, calc or not. Right now, precalc is seen as more important than stats for non stem kids!

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. End of conversation
        1. Victory Screech  0️⃣‏ @Proxy_Tank 5 Nov 2021
          Replying to @zeynep

          Real Statistics is basically real analysis which is advanced calculus I think a focus on calc and stats makes more sense than calc and physics for some but you can’t do data science without math

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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        2. lmaocmonman 🇺🇳 🇺🇲 🕊 🌎 ☮‏ @stopdeboosting 5 Nov 2021
          Replying to @zeynep

          Also, every math teacher knows some students ARE naturally gifted, and others are terribly incompetent. There is a desire to erase this and pretend all are equal and capable. It is not so. We don't expect everyone to play in the NBA. Why do we expect everyone to be good at math?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. lmaocmonman 🇺🇳 🇺🇲 🕊 🌎 ☮‏ @stopdeboosting 5 Nov 2021
          Replying to @stopdeboosting @zeynep

          You don't close the gap by relaxing standards. You close the gap by bringing people up to standard. If they can't meet the standard in spite of all efforts, TOO BAD. You don't hold back our best and brightest just so people can have better feels. That's not how life works.

          0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        4. End of conversation

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