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zeynep's profile
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
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@zeynep

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zeynep tufekciVerified account

@zeynep

Complex systems, wicked problems. Society, technology, science and more. @UNC professor. @NYTimes columnist. My newsletter is @insight: http://www.theinsight.org 

floating in a most peculiar way
theinsight.org
Joined August 2009

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    1. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 14 Oct 2021

      zeynep tufekci Retweeted atlantic triangle

      Yes but: studies show that almost all children get exposed to flu before seven or so (also to other human coronaviruses). Here, we are talking about exposure to a *novel* one, while older. Different process, lot more unknowns, and definitely not zero risk.https://twitter.com/atlantictriangl/status/1448639590898679810 …

      zeynep tufekci added,

      atlantic triangle @atlantictriangl
      Replying to @zeynep
      This is the only way of framing this thing. It's the same as taking a flu shot. The kids are going to encounter these strains eventually. Do you take the risk of them experiencing it in the wild or do you introduce it first in a safe, controlled environment via a vaccine?
      6 replies 10 retweets 60 likes
      Show this thread
    2. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 14 Oct 2021

      zeynep tufekci Retweeted

      I'm not dismissing this: of course parents have such questions. However, post-viral myocarditis is also a thing (all viruses! not just this one!) and the correct comparison is the risk after vaccine vs COVID infection. That's what we should compare imo. https://twitter.com/BabeRuthsChris/status/1448640324046295044 …

      zeynep tufekci added,

      This Tweet is unavailable.
      16 replies 14 retweets 148 likes
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    3. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 14 Oct 2021

      zeynep tufekci Retweeted Arieh Kovler

      I don't see how a regular kid—or pretty much any adult in most places, avoids exposure to COVID within the next year or so at most—if not sooner. Yes, risks to kids is *really* low but always the same question: exposure while vaccinated or not vaccinated.https://twitter.com/ariehkovler/status/1448642107737100289 …

      zeynep tufekci added,

      Arieh KovlerVerified account @ariehkovler
      Replying to @zeynep
      I think some of this is based on old thinking. What's the chance a kid will get Covid at some point in the next five years? In a suppression scenario, perhaps low. In an endemic scenario, probably very high?
      6 replies 19 retweets 133 likes
      Show this thread
    4. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 14 Oct 2021

      zeynep tufekci Retweeted You Should Have Voted For Jo

      These are good questions! I have my own preferences, but that's exactly the correct public discussion, imo. I think we should deeply engage parents with concerns, and address risks as vaccine vs infection with novel virus (something different!).https://twitter.com/colorblindk1d/status/1448644927785635840 …

      zeynep tufekci added,

      You Should Have Voted For Jo @colorblindk1d
      Replying to @zeynep
      What is the risk ratio at which it is unethical to mandate vaccines? Is it 1 to 1? Say that COVID is 10x more likely to cause myocarditis than the vaccine. Is that enough to justify a recommendation? 100X? Where is that line?
      8 replies 7 retweets 81 likes
      Show this thread
    5. Alasdair Munro‏Verified account @apsmunro 14 Oct 2021
      Replying to @zeynep

      I think this is an important question and explains a lot of the inter-country variation in recommendations Some countries have a more medicalised model of childhood (e.g. US) and others active try to avoid this (UK, northern Europe) which tips this balance either way

      1 reply 2 retweets 11 likes
    6. Alasdair Munro‏Verified account @apsmunro 14 Oct 2021
      Replying to @apsmunro @zeynep

      I'll add (as others have said) it's a shame fewer places are embracing more flexibility with the scheduling here Single dose options for adolescent males in particular gets vast majority of benefit and avoids majority of risk Also - we need dose reduction studies

      2 replies 0 retweets 15 likes
    7. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 14 Oct 2021
      Replying to @apsmunro

      Indeed. I definitely agree with the need to consider one-dose option especially teen boys (since the myocarditis risk is obviously concentrated around second shot for them). And need clearer data on infection risks themselves, as comparison.

      3 replies 0 retweets 8 likes
    8. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 14 Oct 2021
      Replying to @zeynep @apsmunro

      I think equity considerations on how we prioritize are super valid and agree kids are low risk (going up with age). I'd disagree that considering childhood vaccination against a novel virus during period of high-circulation is over-medicalization. It's an important consideration.

      2 replies 0 retweets 6 likes
    9. Alasdair Munro‏Verified account @apsmunro 14 Oct 2021
      Replying to @zeynep

      Sorry if I wasn't clear, that was not what I was suggesting My point was the balance of risk:benefit requires a higher degree of benefit in cultures which prize "unmedicalised" childhood - hence different recommendations based on similar data

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    10. Alasdair Munro‏Verified account @apsmunro 14 Oct 2021
      Replying to @apsmunro @zeynep

      (i.e., in the QT asking what ratio was enough to justify recommendation - this will be different depending on difference health cultures)

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 14 Oct 2021
      Replying to @apsmunro

      Actually a very interesting question: is there much variation in childhood vaccination schedules by country? (I mean for ones besides this one?).

      7:30 AM - 14 Oct 2021
      3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. nearlytoolate‏ @nearlytoolate 14 Oct 2021
          Replying to @zeynep @apsmunro

          We don’t have any mandates in the UK for school entry. We don’t offer varicella. Looking at your cdc list there’s actually quite a few we don’t offer.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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        2. Live the Uncertainty‏ @pmholling 14 Oct 2021
          Replying to @zeynep @apsmunro

          Best example I have is varicella. UK does not include that in the standard schedule (can be procured privately). The basis, based on the last JCVI/NICE report I read, is not benefit to the child, but potential risk to adults.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. nearlytoolate‏ @nearlytoolate 14 Oct 2021
          Replying to @pmholling @zeynep @apsmunro

          Looks like the US also offer hep A and hep B, and flu from 6 months

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        4. Show replies
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        2. Aaron Richterman, MD‏ @AaronRichterman 14 Oct 2021
          Replying to @zeynep @apsmunro

          Varicella varies UK vs US (or at least I did last time I looked into this). Part of the reasoning was that childhood vaccination increases average age of infection, potentially leading to more severe cases and pregnancy complications

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        3. Aaron Richterman, MD‏ @AaronRichterman 14 Oct 2021
          Replying to @AaronRichterman @zeynep @apsmunro

          The flip side is not vaccinating to varicella probably leads to a lot more shingles decades later. Issues like this (and eg previously unknown long term consequences of measles) make me favor vaccinations even if 1:1ish. Infection consequences not always well known

          2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
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