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zeynep's profile
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
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@zeynep

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zeynep tufekciVerified account

@zeynep

Complex systems, wicked problems. Society, technology, science and more. @UNC professor. @NYTimes columnist. My newsletter is @insight: http://www.theinsight.org 

floating in a most peculiar way
theinsight.org
Joined August 2009

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    1. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 14 Oct 2021

      Also true: even if we experience it much milder *on average*, adding one more seasonal HCoV will add to our disease burden and increase risks for especially for the elderly/immunocompromised. This is true for other viruses, too (RSV even OC43!) but now we have one additional one.

      2 replies 7 retweets 65 likes
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    2. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 14 Oct 2021

      zeynep tufekci Retweeted Lofti Pixels

      Hence error in arguing merely from "much less likely to get severe disease" (true!) against vaccinating children (especially older ones). Yes, small risk, but adding one more! Also: primary infection with novel virus isn't same process as next exposure.https://twitter.com/loftipixels/status/1448367209680711687 …

      zeynep tufekci added,

      2:19
      Lofti Pixels @loftipixels
      WATCH THIS: Joe Rogan annihilates @drsanjaygupta over vaccinating children. Sanjay seems utterly lost here; almost as if he's never been challenged on this outside of the imploding television medium of 30 sec scripted sound bites and groupthink circle jerks. #FreedomFlu pic.twitter.com/dUOyPN6JAi
      Show this thread
      13 replies 8 retweets 51 likes
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    3. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 14 Oct 2021

      zeynep tufekci Retweeted McKotchi

      I understand, but first, it is not zero. But most importantly, the comparison of vaccine risk isn't to zero risk, it's to risks from getting COVID while unvaccinated. Clearly, both are way smaller risks for children compared to adults, but neither is zero.https://twitter.com/McKotchi/status/1448636692282417160 …

      zeynep tufekci added,

      McKotchi @McKotchi
      Replying to @zeynep
      I can only speak to the 5-11 group — but I think most parents (not the 1/3 that are going to rush out to get it) are worried about adverse events when the risk for healthy kids is close to zero.
      17 replies 13 retweets 119 likes
      Show this thread
    4. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 14 Oct 2021

      zeynep tufekci Retweeted atlantic triangle

      Yes but: studies show that almost all children get exposed to flu before seven or so (also to other human coronaviruses). Here, we are talking about exposure to a *novel* one, while older. Different process, lot more unknowns, and definitely not zero risk.https://twitter.com/atlantictriangl/status/1448639590898679810 …

      zeynep tufekci added,

      atlantic triangle @atlantictriangl
      Replying to @zeynep
      This is the only way of framing this thing. It's the same as taking a flu shot. The kids are going to encounter these strains eventually. Do you take the risk of them experiencing it in the wild or do you introduce it first in a safe, controlled environment via a vaccine?
      6 replies 10 retweets 60 likes
      Show this thread
    5. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 14 Oct 2021

      zeynep tufekci Retweeted

      I'm not dismissing this: of course parents have such questions. However, post-viral myocarditis is also a thing (all viruses! not just this one!) and the correct comparison is the risk after vaccine vs COVID infection. That's what we should compare imo. https://twitter.com/BabeRuthsChris/status/1448640324046295044 …

      zeynep tufekci added,

      This Tweet is unavailable.
      16 replies 14 retweets 148 likes
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    6. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 14 Oct 2021

      zeynep tufekci Retweeted Arieh Kovler

      I don't see how a regular kid—or pretty much any adult in most places, avoids exposure to COVID within the next year or so at most—if not sooner. Yes, risks to kids is *really* low but always the same question: exposure while vaccinated or not vaccinated.https://twitter.com/ariehkovler/status/1448642107737100289 …

      zeynep tufekci added,

      Arieh KovlerVerified account @ariehkovler
      Replying to @zeynep
      I think some of this is based on old thinking. What's the chance a kid will get Covid at some point in the next five years? In a suppression scenario, perhaps low. In an endemic scenario, probably very high?
      6 replies 19 retweets 133 likes
      Show this thread
    7. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 14 Oct 2021

      zeynep tufekci Retweeted You Should Have Voted For Jo

      These are good questions! I have my own preferences, but that's exactly the correct public discussion, imo. I think we should deeply engage parents with concerns, and address risks as vaccine vs infection with novel virus (something different!).https://twitter.com/colorblindk1d/status/1448644927785635840 …

      zeynep tufekci added,

      You Should Have Voted For Jo @colorblindk1d
      Replying to @zeynep
      What is the risk ratio at which it is unethical to mandate vaccines? Is it 1 to 1? Say that COVID is 10x more likely to cause myocarditis than the vaccine. Is that enough to justify a recommendation? 100X? Where is that line?
      8 replies 7 retweets 81 likes
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    8. Alasdair Munro‏Verified account @apsmunro 14 Oct 2021
      Replying to @zeynep

      I think this is an important question and explains a lot of the inter-country variation in recommendations Some countries have a more medicalised model of childhood (e.g. US) and others active try to avoid this (UK, northern Europe) which tips this balance either way

      1 reply 2 retweets 11 likes
    9. Alasdair Munro‏Verified account @apsmunro 14 Oct 2021
      Replying to @apsmunro @zeynep

      I'll add (as others have said) it's a shame fewer places are embracing more flexibility with the scheduling here Single dose options for adolescent males in particular gets vast majority of benefit and avoids majority of risk Also - we need dose reduction studies

      2 replies 0 retweets 15 likes
    10. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 14 Oct 2021
      Replying to @apsmunro

      Indeed. I definitely agree with the need to consider one-dose option especially teen boys (since the myocarditis risk is obviously concentrated around second shot for them). And need clearer data on infection risks themselves, as comparison.

      3 replies 0 retweets 8 likes
      zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 14 Oct 2021
      Replying to @zeynep @apsmunro

      I think equity considerations on how we prioritize are super valid and agree kids are low risk (going up with age). I'd disagree that considering childhood vaccination against a novel virus during period of high-circulation is over-medicalization. It's an important consideration.

      7:10 AM - 14 Oct 2021
      • 6 Likes
      • OldHound Dr Ed Information Junkie 👨‍💻 Alasdair Munro Roby Bhattacharyya JK
      2 replies 0 retweets 6 likes
        1. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 14 Oct 2021
          Replying to @zeynep @apsmunro

          (I guess I'd add that in the US, unlike say UK or Denmark, there is much less public health protection for individuals and families: vaccines are a tool that allow higher individual protection when people can't depend on lower circulation among adults).

          0 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
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        2. Alasdair Munro‏Verified account @apsmunro 14 Oct 2021
          Replying to @zeynep

          Sorry if I wasn't clear, that was not what I was suggesting My point was the balance of risk:benefit requires a higher degree of benefit in cultures which prize "unmedicalised" childhood - hence different recommendations based on similar data

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        3. Alasdair Munro‏Verified account @apsmunro 14 Oct 2021
          Replying to @apsmunro @zeynep

          (i.e., in the QT asking what ratio was enough to justify recommendation - this will be different depending on difference health cultures)

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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