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zeynep's profile
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
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@zeynep

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zeynep tufekciVerified account

@zeynep

Complex systems, wicked problems. Society, technology, science and more. @UNC professor. @NYTimes columnist. My newsletter is @insight: http://www.theinsight.org 

floating in a most peculiar way
theinsight.org
Joined August 2009

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    1. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 3 Oct 2021

      These failures worsen other failures: if the authorities aren't seen as trustworthy (denying airborne transmission, for example), people end up seeking information on other things on their own, too, and everything gets confusing. People can fall prey to cranks and misinformation.

      19 replies 168 retweets 904 likes
      Show this thread
    2. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 3 Oct 2021

      I increasingly see people willing to believe things are so bad because this is a superzombieantigencalifragilisticexpialidocious virus, with extraordinary properties. Tragically, as @michaelmina_lab says, it's a straightforward, almost textbook virus. The failure is the response.

      19 replies 212 retweets 1,072 likes
      Show this thread
    3. cbergenholtz‏ @justsomeoneDK 3 Oct 2021
      Replying to @zeynep @michaelmina_lab

      I've probably missed it - is there a good piece explaining how any textbook Coronavirus that one encounters for the first time as an adult would lead to long-Covid, increased risk of liver-damage etc.?

      3 replies 0 retweets 8 likes
    4. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 3 Oct 2021
      Replying to @justsomeoneDK @michaelmina_lab

      A piece on that. A novel virus we encounter first time as adults is really dangerous, not necessarily because the virus has extraordinary properties compared with other viruses, but exactly because it is novel to our immune system. (Why vaccines work!)https://www.theinsight.org/p/novelty-means-severity-the-key-to …

      3 replies 4 retweets 36 likes
    5. cbergenholtz‏ @justsomeoneDK 3 Oct 2021
      Replying to @zeynep @michaelmina_lab

      That is a great piece, thank you, that I've read several times. It does not document that other Coronaviruses would lead to long-Covid. I guess I am asking too much, since that kind of evidence would be very difficult to establish.

      3 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    6. Michael Mina‏Verified account @michaelmina_lab 3 Oct 2021
      Replying to @justsomeoneDK @zeynep

      It would be. One of the points I’ve tried to make many times is that what makes this virus special is more that it is infecting adults for their first time, not kids. We have evolved to deal w / learn pathogens safely as babies. But we are not evolved to do this as adults.

      4 replies 1 retweet 19 likes
    7. cbergenholtz‏ @justsomeoneDK 4 Oct 2021
      Replying to @michaelmina_lab @zeynep

      Again, I understand the essence of your argument, but I need more than your word for it. To compare, most people with insight into research design/stats can assess quality of vaccines, masks and follow discussions on viruses being airborne. In contrast, 1/2

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. cbergenholtz‏ @justsomeoneDK 4 Oct 2021
      Replying to @justsomeoneDK @michaelmina_lab @zeynep

      immune system is more complex. I can't read the theoretical arguments and confidently assess validity. Hence, when there is theoretical disagreement, I could rely on status - but authority figures have been wrong in the past. I'd need much more detail, and empirical evidence. 2/2

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. cbergenholtz‏ @justsomeoneDK 4 Oct 2021
      Replying to @justsomeoneDK @michaelmina_lab @zeynep

      Again, maybe I am asking for too much. The "Novelty means severity" piece is insightful, but it does not imply the same transparent and empirical line of evidence as vaccine efficacy or safety (see e.g. this excellent piece https://bostonreview.net/science-nature/andrew-l-croxford-long-term-safety-argument-over-covid-19-vaccines …). 3/2

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    10. cbergenholtz‏ @justsomeoneDK 4 Oct 2021
      Replying to @justsomeoneDK @michaelmina_lab @zeynep

      In other words, one could write a great piece on what kind of evidence we can expect on different kinds of (Covid) theoretical questions and policy issues.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 4 Oct 2021
      Replying to @justsomeoneDK @michaelmina_lab

      (I really like that piece by @andrew_croxford by the way). Long-term, as evidence: if we see a large wave of severe reinfections among the already-vaccinated or past-infected similar to immunologically-naive times. By every actual study in real life, no such thing yet whatsoever.

      6:12 AM - 4 Oct 2021
      • 1 Like
      • Andrew L. Croxford
      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        1. New conversation
        2. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 4 Oct 2021
          Replying to @zeynep @justsomeoneDK and

          Breakthroughs are happening for sure, and elderly experience immunosenescence, so this will be one more disease that especially endangers them. Right now, there are pockets of unvaccinated/uninfected almost everywhere—some larger. But especially given Delta, this phase will end.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 4 Oct 2021
          Replying to @zeynep @justsomeoneDK and

          After that, we'll see severity in non-immunologically-naive population: a different ballgame, but similar to other post-pandemic eras. Likely >HCoVs (judging from breakthroughs but hard to tell yet) but maybe ~seasonal flu (why I think we should be aggressive about it).

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. End of conversation

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