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zeynep's profile
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
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@zeynep

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zeynep tufekciVerified account

@zeynep

Complex systems, wicked problems. Society, technology, science and more. @UNC professor. @NYTimes columnist. My newsletter is @insight: http://www.theinsight.org 

floating in a most peculiar way
theinsight.org
Joined August 2009

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    1. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 27 Sep 2021

      Do people know that the 1890 pandemic was likely caused by another coronavirus, OC43 (that was then novel?) Nowadays, no longer novel, it is one of the causes of the common cold. We're obviously not living in the OC43 pandemic since, and we won't live in a COVID pandemic forever.

      103 replies 542 retweets 2,757 likes
      Show this thread
    2. Bloom Lab‏ @jbloom_lab 27 Sep 2021
      Replying to @zeynep

      I think evidence for 1889-1890 pandemic being caused by OC43 is pretty dubious. There is good seroarchaeology evidence (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2557748/ …) that there was a flu pandemic (probably H3N8) in 1889-1890. In addition, ... (1/3)

      4 replies 15 retweets 130 likes
    3. Bloom Lab‏ @jbloom_lab 27 Sep 2021
      Replying to @jbloom_lab @zeynep

      ... after OC43 / 1889-90 idea started to gain popular press, I went back & read some historical accounts of 1889-90 pandemic (eg, https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1279164530 … & https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/3337889379 …). Drs were already quite familiar with influenza then, and they all thought 1889-90 was flu. (2/3)

      3 replies 5 retweets 56 likes
    4. Jasnah Kholin - 8964 - ACAB -  💉 💉‏ @wanderer_jasnah 27 Sep 2021
      Replying to @jbloom_lab @zeynep

      with all due respect back then "flu" was a catch-all for "it's a serious, short-lived respiratory infection". after all, we first thought H. influenzæ was the cause of flu once that was isolated.

      3 replies 0 retweets 14 likes
    5. Jasnah Kholin - 8964 - ACAB -  💉 💉‏ @wanderer_jasnah 27 Sep 2021
      Replying to @wanderer_jasnah @jbloom_lab @zeynep

      considering how many people in *this* pandemic used a flu playbook despite *knowing* it's not, i don't think it's reasonable to expect people back then to know the difference when we didn't even know CoVs *exist*.

      2 replies 0 retweets 10 likes
    6. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 27 Sep 2021
      Replying to @wanderer_jasnah @jbloom_lab

      I see an amazing project for a historian here. I don't have a systematic collection, but "loss of smell" (and some other neurological stuff) does come up as symptom of 1890 and that was my cue—though, yes, a lot of dissent to it. Someone hunt the archives! https://ia800708.us.archive.org/view_archive.php?archive=/22/items/crossref-pre-1909-scholarly-works/10.1016%252Fs0140-6736%252802%252914498-9.zip&file=10.1016%252Fs0140-6736%252802%252914656-3.pdf …pic.twitter.com/OBzhRfPqca

      2 replies 1 retweet 11 likes
    7. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 27 Sep 2021
      Replying to @zeynep @wanderer_jasnah @jbloom_lab

      Part of the issue here is the circularity of assumption—so a historian needs to go find the original accounts, not the summaries. For example, if 1890 is not flu but assumed to be so, the clinical experience will get mentally coded as flu, and then details are circularly lost.+

      2 replies 0 retweets 5 likes
    8. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 27 Sep 2021
      Replying to @zeynep @wanderer_jasnah @jbloom_lab

      You see this with yellow fever where they arrive at some incorrect conclusions (screw up the incubation period) but then they write off certain options as "proven" wrong and it takes a bit of stubbornness for people to remain on track (since now they are going against evidence).

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
      zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 27 Sep 2021
      Replying to @zeynep @wanderer_jasnah @jbloom_lab

      So a grad student going through the archives for primary descriptions (especially early on) globally might be able to provide a lot of clarity to the symptom set. (As "conclusions" spread, you see stuff become homogenized circularly: there was a lot of communication).

      12:04 PM - 27 Sep 2021
      • 4 Likes
      • Ryan Hisner Jon Ploug Jessica Pickett
      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Jessica Pickett‏ @pickettjessica 27 Sep 2021
          Replying to @zeynep @wanderer_jasnah @jbloom_lab

          I wouldn't underestimate the archival challenge here, though, especially if you're looking at early on in Central Asia and the Caucuses, that would probably entail several different research languages *and* the medical terminology or popular euphemisms in each of them.

          1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
        3. Jessica Pickett‏ @pickettjessica 27 Sep 2021
          Replying to @pickettjessica @zeynep and

          For whatever it's worth, I've repeatedly pestered @pickettzoda about combing through his gigabytes of documents for relevant references - but apparently there was surprisingly little discussion in either the religious or political records compared to cholera outbreaks.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
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