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zeynep's profile
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
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@zeynep

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zeynep tufekciVerified account

@zeynep

Complex systems, wicked problems. Society, technology, science and more. @UNC professor. @NYTimes columnist. My newsletter is @insight: http://www.theinsight.org 

floating in a most peculiar way
theinsight.org
Joined August 2009

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    1. Thomas Levenson, Zṓiarchos‏ @TomLevenson 29 Jun 2021

      8/ Now, absolutely, the fact that the author of a highly selective essay that omits all the evidence against its speculative conclusions has a history of coming to conclusions opposite those of the research on which he depends is not proof that this story is wrong too. But...

      1 reply 2 retweets 43 likes
      Show this thread
    2. Thomas Levenson, Zṓiarchos‏ @TomLevenson 29 Jun 2021

      9/ It should evoke real caution in any editor, reporter, or pundit pursuing that same story. And here's my point (I do have one!)...

      1 reply 2 retweets 41 likes
      Show this thread
    3. Thomas Levenson, Zṓiarchos‏ @TomLevenson 29 Jun 2021

      10/ The lab-escape story depends wholly on a lot of deep and detailed knowledge across a number of domains: epidemiology, the dynamics of zoonosis, molecular biology in general and the highly subject-specific problems of lab work on any given organism...and more...

      3 replies 9 retweets 55 likes
      Show this thread
    4. Thomas Levenson, Zṓiarchos‏ @TomLevenson 29 Jun 2021

      11/ "Amateur epidemiologists" aren't qualified to have independent opinions across that spectrum. "Data guys" aren't. Philosophy Ph.D's-turned pundits aren't. Etc....

      11 replies 5 retweets 59 likes
      Show this thread
    5. xpostfactoid‏ @xpostfactoid 29 Jun 2021
      Replying to @TomLevenson

      Disagree. The politics matter. The history matters. Epidemiologists are divided. Significant number who signed March letter are rethinking. Pandemic has taught us that epidemiologists too can be wrong on fundamentals. @zeynep & @RosenthalHealth are reliable sources in my book.

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    6. Thomas Levenson, Zṓiarchos‏ @TomLevenson 29 Jun 2021
      Replying to @xpostfactoid @zeynep @RosenthalHealth

      We will agree to disagree, then. Please see this for a very compelling take down on the chain of inferences that dominate lab-escape argumentation:https://newrepublic.com/article/162689/bats-covid-19-lab-leak-theory?utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=EB_TNR&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1624975820 …

      1 reply 2 retweets 3 likes
    7. xpostfactoid‏ @xpostfactoid 29 Jun 2021
      Replying to @TomLevenson @zeynep @RosenthalHealth

      Subhead raises a flag, though: bioengineered virus is only one lab possibility.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Thomas Levenson, Zṓiarchos‏ @TomLevenson 29 Jun 2021
      Replying to @xpostfactoid @zeynep @RosenthalHealth

      a) subheds are not the story (and not written by the reporter). b) the story is clear: there's essentially no there there in the lab-escape, & especially in the engineered virus escape story. What frustrates me most RE @zeynep's piece is that she almost did something really good.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 29 Jun 2021
      Replying to @TomLevenson @xpostfactoid @RosenthalHealth

      May I recommend this article with extensive quotes by Ralph Baric that explains the concerns fairly clearly, and be untagged? Thanks. https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/06/29/1027290/gain-of-function-risky-bat-virus-engineering-links-america-to-wuhan/ …pic.twitter.com/z0C6kgz2IB

      2 replies 0 retweets 5 likes
    10. Thomas Levenson, Zṓiarchos‏ @TomLevenson 29 Jun 2021
      Replying to @zeynep

      My apologies. I did not tag you in, and will untag (or more likely, give up on a conversation that's chasing its tail.) The Baric-centered article is useful and interesting, and in my reading still not terribly supportive of lab escape as close to as likely as zoonosis. YMMV.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 29 Jun 2021
      Replying to @TomLevenson

      I'm with Dr. Akiko Iwasaki on this who essentially said given so little evidence, either way, the real issue isn't trying to assign a faux precision to probabilities but to deeply understand what were the viable paths, and how to address it all as best we can.

      10:04 AM - 29 Jun 2021
      • 2 Likes
      • Can Sar Taking Action 4 US
      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 29 Jun 2021
          Replying to @zeynep @TomLevenson

          We don't address a plane crash by saying "most of the time planes are safe." We investigate, as best we can, and work to make it all safer and I think proclaiming certainty about likelihoods without much evidence doesn't give us answers or a path forward. Have a great day.

          2 replies 1 retweet 2 likes
        3. Thomas Levenson, Zṓiarchos‏ @TomLevenson 29 Jun 2021
          Replying to @zeynep

          I am having a nice day, thanks. I wish the same for you. There are problems with your analogy, & I'm afraid the problem of misplaced certainty fall rather on the escape side of the argument, but I guess we disagree. I do think you missed an opportunity in your long piece.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        4. End of conversation

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