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zeynep's profile
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
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@zeynep

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zeynep tufekciVerified account

@zeynep

Complex systems, wicked problems. Society, technology, science and more. @UNC professor. @NYTimes columnist. My newsletter is @insight: http://www.theinsight.org 

floating in a most peculiar way
theinsight.org
Joined August 2009

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    1. Zhihua Chen‏ @zhihuachen 27 Jun 2021
      Replying to @zhihuachen @zeynep

      At the risk of getting blocked 😅, I’ll still link here the three things I tagged you with, which I don’t think are factually incorrect. Two are critiques of specifics, one takes inspiration from your discussion of civets. By the way, I read your piece and thought it very helpful

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Zhihua Chen‏ @zhihuachen 27 Jun 2021
      Replying to @zhihuachen @zeynep

      Zhihua Chen Retweeted Zhihua Chen

      critique 1https://twitter.com/zhihuachen/status/1408447286254911492 …

      Zhihua Chen added,

      Zhihua Chen @zhihuachen
      Replying to @zhihuachen @zeynep
      Still the phrasing is a bit odd here - the Shi team themselves published on their bat sampling trips to this mine years ago. It doesn’t take this PhD thesis by someone who is not from WIV, and who only mentioned WIV bat sampling in passing, to “reveal” WIV bat sampling.
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Zhihua Chen‏ @zhihuachen 27 Jun 2021
      Replying to @zhihuachen @zeynep

      Zhihua Chen Retweeted Zhihua Chen

      critique 2, forwarding someone else’s discussion.https://twitter.com/zhihuachen/status/1409162687762911236 …

      Zhihua Chen added,

      Zhihua Chen @zhihuachen
      This half baked accusation got into @zeynep ‘s piece as well… https://twitter.com/AtomsksSanakan/status/1409149632895229953 …
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Zhihua Chen‏ @zhihuachen 27 Jun 2021
      Replying to @zhihuachen @zeynep

      Zhihua Chen Retweeted Zhihua Chen

      Last one, expansion on exonerating civets. And I will stop.https://twitter.com/zhihuachen/status/1408515985326456837?s=21 …

      Zhihua Chen added,

      Zhihua Chen @zhihuachen
      Replying to @zeynep
      If we take out the civets, and consider direct bat-human transmission, doesn’t it mean that 19 years after SARS1, we still haven’t found out how the virus reached Guangzhou from the Yunnan caves over 1000 kilometers away - exactly the same situation we are in right now with
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 27 Jun 2021
      Replying to @zhihuachen

      OK much easier to follow, thank you. Answers in a bit.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 27 Jun 2021
      Replying to @zeynep @zhihuachen

      Last one is easiest. Bat-to-human plausibility makes the search for the intermediary animal less necessary as proof of lack of lab involvement. But makes bats at labs a higher risk factor. Also people living near bats. So it’s not leaning in a single direction, weight-wise.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    7. Zhihua Chen‏ @zhihuachen 27 Jun 2021
      Replying to @zeynep

      This one is hardest for me, and it’s not a critique of your piece. :) I just kept going back to the SARS1 comparison thinking how the evidentiary burden is not demanded of SARS1 since if the civets were victims then we really haven’t tracked down how SARS1 reached Guangdong.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 27 Jun 2021
      Replying to @zhihuachen

      I point out the SARS1 distance to origin very high in the piece. I think the potential questions around civets don't cut in any single direction, but just highlights that bat coronaviruses may well be "poised" to jump to humans, as per a lot of Shi/Baric research, actually.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    9. Zhihua Chen‏ @zhihuachen 28 Jun 2021
      Replying to @zeynep

      Isn’t it worth exploring how sars1 emerged in Guangdong far away from Yunnan without the aid of intermediate species? Shouldn’t much of the processes/foundation involved in sars1’s emergence remain active for the emergence of SARS-cov-2,

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Zhihua Chen‏ @zhihuachen 28 Jun 2021
      Replying to @zhihuachen @zeynep

      … and therefore its understanding helpful for us to assess the relative possibilities of nature vs research activities? Thanks for responding by the way.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 28 Jun 2021
      Replying to @zhihuachen

      Re-interpreting SARS opens up plausible paths—not an argument either way. I think @VirusesImmunity has this right. She said “there’s so little evidence for either of these things, that it’s almost like a tossup." I think that's the right epistemic humility given lack of evidence.

      8:59 AM - 28 Jun 2021
      • 2 Likes
      • Prof. Akiko Iwasaki Two all the way, a coffee milk, and a Del's
      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Zhihua Chen‏ @zhihuachen 28 Jun 2021
          Replying to @zeynep @VirusesImmunity

          Agreeing with epistemic humility. But I think you would agree that it wouldn’t require us to be incurious about how sars1 might’ve reached Guangzhou w/o the aid of civets, or WIV, while requiring us to be open to how sars-cov-2 might’ve reached Wuhan w/o aid of civets but w WIV.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 29 Jun 2021
          Replying to @zhihuachen @VirusesImmunity

          As I write in the article, humans are clearly a lot more mobile and I explicitly say that for this case as well. If you read my article as not taking a side by laying out the plausible paths (which is what it is) you can see that it's explicit about that. Humans are mobile!pic.twitter.com/qYT3xzJMuc

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. End of conversation

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