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zeynep's profile
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
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@zeynep

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zeynep tufekciVerified account

@zeynep

Complex systems, wicked problems. Society, technology, science and more. @UNC professor. @NYTimes columnist. My newsletter is @insight: http://www.theinsight.org 

floating in a most peculiar way
theinsight.org
Joined August 2009

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    1. Ira Goldman  🦆 🦆 🦆‏ @KDbyProxy 16 Apr 2021

      Ira Goldman  🦆 🦆 🦆 Retweeted 𝖑𝖆𝖑𝖎𝖙𝖔 ·  👼🏽

      More than 85,000 Likes for the notion that a student who makes a devil's-advocate argument is "arguing from the perspective of evil."https://twitter.com/vox00_/status/1383047575608119296 …

      Ira Goldman  🦆 🦆 🦆 added,

      𝖑𝖆𝖑𝖎𝖙𝖔 ·  👼🏽 @vox00_
      I deliberately tell my students not to be devil's advocates in discussions because it normalizes disingenuous argument and leads into gaslighting. There's no point in arguing from the perspective of evil. Nothing good comes from that.
      Show this thread
      25 replies 68 retweets 482 likes
      Show this thread
    2. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 16 Apr 2021
      Replying to @KDbyProxy

      Devil’s advocate as it’s practiced isn’t necessarily critical thinking or the “Socratic method”. It’s too often replacing evidence and deep dive with a game, rather than something that substantive and strong. 🤷‍♀️

      16 replies 5 retweets 28 likes
    3. Dave‏ @DavidGMoore4 16 Apr 2021
      Replying to @zeynep @KDbyProxy

      Then you must be doing "devil's advocate" wrong.Any good thinker always takes the contrary position, and poles holes in the premise, to make sure the premise is robust.

      1 reply 0 retweets 15 likes
    4. Jonathan‏ @Jon44444444 17 Apr 2021
      Replying to @DavidGMoore4 @zeynep @KDbyProxy

      Glenn Loury is the absolute master at this. (People he debates say he is better at arguing their position than they are, which is what makes his own positions and beliefs so formidable.)

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 17 Apr 2021
      Replying to @Jon44444444 @DavidGMoore4 @KDbyProxy

      That's very valuable, though, and very different than the claim that even arguments not made in good faith (i.e. the devil's) are generally useful in a substantive manner. That's not really true even in the ideal (fierce debate requires commitment to advancing the substance) and+

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 17 Apr 2021
      Replying to @zeynep @Jon44444444 and

      ..in practice, that DA skill set is just showing up as (now platform-amplified) contrarianism, reply-guys who don't do their homework, and easy QT dunking by (me too!) big accounts. We should discourage that in our pedagogy and practice, imo.

      11:10 AM - 17 Apr 2021
      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Jonathan‏ @Jon44444444 17 Apr 2021
          Replying to @zeynep @DavidGMoore4 @KDbyProxy

          To make this more concrete, what if I think Israel's military occupation of W. Bank is justified. I might play devil's advocate (w/ myself and like-minded) by trying to imagine arguments against just based on my knowledge, but w/o necessarily reading up on BDS.. Not productive?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Show replies

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