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zeynep's profile
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
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@zeynep

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zeynep tufekciVerified account

@zeynep

Complex systems, wicked problems. Society, technology, science and more. @UNC professor. @NYTimes columnist. My newsletter is @insight: http://www.theinsight.org 

floating in a most peculiar way
theinsight.org
Joined August 2009

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    2. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 17 Apr 2021

      If you encourage the procedural, gamified and contrarianist version that "devil's advocate" often becomes, and don't pay attention to preparation, substance and framework (like these platforms), you don't get the critical thinking you want in the world but "let's make shit up."

      2 replies 41 retweets 249 likes
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    3. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 17 Apr 2021

      Mindless and heavily-procedural contrarianism is a plague on substantive debate and critical thinking. Lemme come up with a clever, contrarian point is too-heavily prized and it usually *displaces* the kind of debate one needs. I saw it so much this pandemic.

      12 replies 59 retweets 403 likes
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    5. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 17 Apr 2021

      zeynep tufekci Retweeted Tom Clarke

      Yeah. The point was on what it really takes to have deep, substantive critical thinking and challenge, and what devolves into games that don't. Again: I pay people way above industry rates out of my own pocket to take me down as substantively as they can.https://twitter.com/tomeclarke/status/1383395983984259076?s=20 …

      zeynep tufekci added,

      Tom Clarke @tomeclarke
      Replying to @tomeclarke @zeynep
      Is there another definition that makes this bad? Because this seems to me the kind of thing you do if you're not singlemindedly focussed on getting other people to agree with you. Steelmanning is a variation of this.
      2 replies 3 retweets 53 likes
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    9. James Surowiecki‏Verified account @JamesSurowiecki 17 Apr 2021
      Replying to @zeynep

      But the tweet Jesse screenshotted wasn't from TMC, and it wasn't making a subtle point about the skill needed to play DA, nor was it talking about arguing on social media. It was talking about the classroom, and saying students should never argue "from the perspective of evil."

      1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
    10. James Surowiecki‏Verified account @JamesSurowiecki 17 Apr 2021
      Replying to @JamesSurowiecki @zeynep

      That assumed that it was usually, or often, clear what positions were "evil." And I don't see where students are supposed to get the skills TMC says are necessary to argue well and thoughtfully if not in the classroom.

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
      zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 17 Apr 2021
      Replying to @JamesSurowiecki

      Where is she saying not in the classroom?

      5:48 AM - 17 Apr 2021
      • 2 Likes
      • TheElksMan Wordy McWordinson
      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        1. Marshall Auerback‏ @Mauerback 17 Apr 2021
          Replying to @zeynep @JamesSurowiecki

          The reference was made to "my students" so I think classroom is to be reasonably inferred, isn't it?

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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        2. James Surowiecki‏Verified account @JamesSurowiecki 17 Apr 2021
          Replying to @zeynep

          The original tweet - which again, wasn't written by TMC but RTed by her - is from a teacher who said they tell their students never to be a DA. So if you can't learn the skills in class, and you can't do it on social media (for good reasons), where do you learn them?

          3 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        3. James Surowiecki‏Verified account @JamesSurowiecki 17 Apr 2021
          Replying to @JamesSurowiecki @zeynep

          And that aside, the thoughtful follow-up tweets you quoted weren't written by the person who wrote the (not good) tweet Jesse screenshotted, so it doesn't seem fair to critique him for not taking those into account.

          1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
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