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zeynep's profile
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
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@zeynep

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zeynep tufekciVerified account

@zeynep

Complex systems, wicked problems. Society, technology, science and more. @UNC professor. @NYTimes columnist. My newsletter is @insight: http://www.theinsight.org 

floating in a most peculiar way
theinsight.org
Joined August 2009

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    1. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 31 Mar 2021
      Replying to @chris_bail @BrendanNyhan

      On the other hand, we have a stream of news reports of (quashed) research from inside the companies that do allege extensive contribution *and* crucially, I'd like to repeat that Fox News is part of the algorithmic public sphere (which makes measurement harder).

      3 replies 0 retweets 15 likes
    2. Chris Bail‏ @chris_bail 31 Mar 2021
      Replying to @zeynep @BrendanNyhan

      I am familiar with the cases you describe, I believe, but do we actually know that they radicalized people, or just that people joined more radical groups? Also, shouldn't we be concerned that media accounts of such cases are highly selective themselves?

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    3. Chris Bail‏ @chris_bail 31 Mar 2021
      Replying to @chris_bail @zeynep @BrendanNyhan

      I'm sure we both agree that this is why we need independent audits of algorithms, but in my reading of the (still preliminary) literature, we should not be surprised if they are much less powerful than we might think.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    4. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 31 Mar 2021
      Replying to @chris_bail @BrendanNyhan

      A small effect per person at a time in a feedback cycle (person-algo-person-algo-person) over time in a transitional time (when all the big players are reacting to it by adjusting output) can quickly add up to a substantial societal transition, though.

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    5. Chris Bail‏ @chris_bail 31 Mar 2021
      Replying to @zeynep @BrendanNyhan

      As the author of a book about how fringe ideas become mainstream via emergent processes I agree ;) But it's not clear to me that this is driven by algorithms anymore than other forms of collective behavior

      1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
    6. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 31 Mar 2021
      Replying to @chris_bail @BrendanNyhan

      Hahaha yes. Congratulations, btw! But how can it not be part of the cycle? Incentives matter, and if these algorithms had no effect, the companies who measure everything to death wouldn't use them. It's not *just* driven by algorithms: yes, that is obviously and trivially true.

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    7. Chris Bail‏ @chris_bail 31 Mar 2021
      Replying to @zeynep @BrendanNyhan

      For me, it's not trivial given the amount of public discussion dedicated to this and other issues that research indicates have minimal effects (not just algorithms but misinformation and echo chambers too).

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    8. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 31 Mar 2021
      Replying to @chris_bail @BrendanNyhan

      And my frustration is that we’re not looking at the full feedback cycle, which can easily be societally transformative but hard to measure like this, and our research isn’t equipped to find those effects.

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    9. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 31 Mar 2021
      Replying to @zeynep @chris_bail @BrendanNyhan

      So we get the companies saying it’s the people, researcher saying look at these other processes, journalist focusing too much on the companies... But the crucial dynamic is that feedback cycle, and pretty much nothing is out of it now unless it’s, say, Harper’s? Eccentric funder.

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    10. Chris Bail‏ @chris_bail 31 Mar 2021
      Replying to @zeynep @BrendanNyhan

      Exactly- as @duncanjwatts @davidlazer and @j_a_tucker have recently argued, we need eco-system level data, over time (and I would add mixed-method research, as well).

      1 reply 1 retweet 6 likes
      zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 31 Mar 2021
      Replying to @chris_bail @BrendanNyhan and

      Yeah, totally. And we won't truly be able to separate and quantify effects (since... feedback cycle) but that will give us a much clearer picture of the dynamics.

      4:55 PM - 31 Mar 2021
      • 3 Likes
      • Pedro Seguel David Lazer Chris Bail
      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
        1. Chris Bail‏ @chris_bail 31 Mar 2021
          Replying to @zeynep @BrendanNyhan and

          Definitely....great discussion/synthesis @zeynep. We're gonna miss you down here in North Carolina :(

          0 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
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