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zeynep's profile
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
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@zeynep

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zeynep tufekciVerified account

@zeynep

Complex systems, wicked problems. Society, technology, science and more. @UNC professor. @NYTimes columnist. My newsletter is @insight: http://www.theinsight.org 

floating in a most peculiar way
theinsight.org
Joined August 2009

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    1. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 31 Mar 2021
      Replying to @chris_bail

      Maybe, maybe not but that design cannot measure that question. You also cannot measure the polarization question like that imo to be honest, because on what planet is, say, Fox news outside of the algorithmic public sphere? It orients itself to compete with Breitbart on Facebook.

      6 replies 5 retweets 71 likes
    2. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 31 Mar 2021
      Replying to @zeynep @chris_bail

      I share the frustration the data we need is locked up in the big companies, and nobody is funding the kind of longitudinal design we need. But the keys aren't under the light. We can try, like this study, but the world isn't separated neatly for our surveys to work like this.

      1 reply 1 retweet 38 likes
    3. Chris Bail‏ @chris_bail 31 Mar 2021
      Replying to @zeynep

      I agree on data access, but would also point out that most of the evidence in support of the algorithmic hypothesis is highly anecdotal and non-causal. The best analysis I've yet seen is @BrendanNyhan's recent work w/web tracking data that also finds little support in my reading.

      2 replies 0 retweets 9 likes
    4. Chris Bail‏ @chris_bail 31 Mar 2021
      Replying to @chris_bail @zeynep @BrendanNyhan

      And-- though also not the experimental evidence you and I might like see-- I think Kevin Munger's observational analysis of YouTube also finds little evidence:https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1940161220964767 …

      1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
    5. Chris Bail‏ @chris_bail 31 Mar 2021
      Replying to @chris_bail @zeynep @BrendanNyhan

      And even though we should be highly skeptical of work authored by people inside social media companies, it is perhaps worth noting that Bakshy et al (in Science) found little evidence of this many years ago as well.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    6. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 31 Mar 2021
      Replying to @chris_bail @BrendanNyhan

      On the other hand, we have a stream of news reports of (quashed) research from inside the companies that do allege extensive contribution *and* crucially, I'd like to repeat that Fox News is part of the algorithmic public sphere (which makes measurement harder).

      3 replies 0 retweets 15 likes
    7. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 31 Mar 2021
      Replying to @zeynep @chris_bail @BrendanNyhan

      Comparing "algorithmic" vs "non-algorithmic" news makes little sense when we know all the big players are competing on those terms (and such ecological shifts are always hard for causal inference) especially when we're measuring snaphots of shadows, not actual effects.

      1 reply 3 retweets 13 likes
    8. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 31 Mar 2021
      Replying to @zeynep @chris_bail @BrendanNyhan

      What we need, I think, is a proper longitudinal panel study. (Our moment reminds me of the extensive survey work in the 2000s trying to find internet effects by comparing internet users to non-internet users—when we know the world doesn't divide like that.)

      1 reply 0 retweets 15 likes
    9. Chris Bail‏ @chris_bail 31 Mar 2021
      Replying to @zeynep @BrendanNyhan

      I certainly agree (on the old internet effect work), but seems to me that we can think of some of the web tracking data is a substantial improvement and captures SOME longitudinal detail (though not in all the outcomes we might want to see)

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    10. Chris Bail‏ @chris_bail 31 Mar 2021
      Replying to @chris_bail @zeynep @BrendanNyhan

      I believe @andyguess @BrendanNyhan and others have such longitudinal work in progress. But I'd also love to hear what the authors of the piece I shared think about this issue (@JessicaFeezell @sidney_b_)

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 31 Mar 2021
      Replying to @chris_bail @BrendanNyhan and

      I don't have a problem with individual papers; just saying we aren't measuring what we need to because of data limitations. Yes, we do need proper longitudinal work, and ideally, independent research access to internal data.

      3:58 PM - 31 Mar 2021
      • 9 Likes
      • Mehmet Onur Yaşa Elif Nur Kumru activate me Science of Science Sinan Aral Adarsh Mathew (on the job market!) Benjamin Toff Theo Jessica Feezell
      2 replies 0 retweets 9 likes
        1. Chris Bail‏ @chris_bail 31 Mar 2021
          Replying to @zeynep @BrendanNyhan and

          At the risk of self-promotion, some people might be interested in the longitudinal in-depth interviews I present to analyze the radicalization process (combined with a field experiment and large-scale text analysis) in my new book:https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691203423/breaking-the-social-media-prism …

          0 replies 0 retweets 12 likes
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        2. Sinan Aral‏Verified account @sinanaral 1 Apr 2021
          Replying to @zeynep @chris_bail and

          I agree w/ @zeynep here. While we need more studies, commend the authors etc and respectfully: this study doesn't measure what it proports to and you simply can't address this question without experiments. And...

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Sinan Aral‏Verified account @sinanaral 1 Apr 2021
          Replying to @sinanaral @zeynep and

          The weight of the experimental evidence on this goes in the opposite direction, both in direct experiments on political polarization and related work on algorithmic narrowing of consumption. The best experimental work to my knowledge remains @RoeeLevyZ's paper/thesis...

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
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