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zeynep's profile
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
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@zeynep

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zeynep tufekciVerified account

@zeynep

Complex systems, wicked problems. Society, technology, science and more. @UNC professor. @NYTimes columnist. My newsletter is @insight: http://www.theinsight.org 

floating in a most peculiar way
theinsight.org
Joined August 2009

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    1. Chris Bail‏ @chris_bail 31 Mar 2021

      Another new study indicates algorithms aren't driving polarization. The evidence is preliminary, but part of a growing trend of studies that don't find evidence of the much fabled extremist rabbit hole.https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0747563220303733 …

      9 replies 56 retweets 192 likes
    2. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 31 Mar 2021
      Replying to @chris_bail

      Maybe, maybe not but that design cannot measure that question. You also cannot measure the polarization question like that imo to be honest, because on what planet is, say, Fox news outside of the algorithmic public sphere? It orients itself to compete with Breitbart on Facebook.

      6 replies 5 retweets 71 likes
    3. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 31 Mar 2021
      Replying to @zeynep @chris_bail

      I share the frustration the data we need is locked up in the big companies, and nobody is funding the kind of longitudinal design we need. But the keys aren't under the light. We can try, like this study, but the world isn't separated neatly for our surveys to work like this.

      1 reply 1 retweet 38 likes
    4. Chris Bail‏ @chris_bail 31 Mar 2021
      Replying to @zeynep

      I agree on data access, but would also point out that most of the evidence in support of the algorithmic hypothesis is highly anecdotal and non-causal. The best analysis I've yet seen is @BrendanNyhan's recent work w/web tracking data that also finds little support in my reading.

      2 replies 0 retweets 9 likes
    5. Chris Bail‏ @chris_bail 31 Mar 2021
      Replying to @chris_bail @zeynep @BrendanNyhan

      And-- though also not the experimental evidence you and I might like see-- I think Kevin Munger's observational analysis of YouTube also finds little evidence:https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1940161220964767 …

      1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
    6. Chris Bail‏ @chris_bail 31 Mar 2021
      Replying to @chris_bail @zeynep @BrendanNyhan

      And even though we should be highly skeptical of work authored by people inside social media companies, it is perhaps worth noting that Bakshy et al (in Science) found little evidence of this many years ago as well.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    7. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 31 Mar 2021
      Replying to @chris_bail @BrendanNyhan

      On the other hand, we have a stream of news reports of (quashed) research from inside the companies that do allege extensive contribution *and* crucially, I'd like to repeat that Fox News is part of the algorithmic public sphere (which makes measurement harder).

      3 replies 0 retweets 15 likes
    8. Chris Bail‏ @chris_bail 31 Mar 2021
      Replying to @zeynep @BrendanNyhan

      I am familiar with the cases you describe, I believe, but do we actually know that they radicalized people, or just that people joined more radical groups? Also, shouldn't we be concerned that media accounts of such cases are highly selective themselves?

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    9. Chris Bail‏ @chris_bail 31 Mar 2021
      Replying to @chris_bail @zeynep @BrendanNyhan

      I'm sure we both agree that this is why we need independent audits of algorithms, but in my reading of the (still preliminary) literature, we should not be surprised if they are much less powerful than we might think.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    10. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 31 Mar 2021
      Replying to @chris_bail @BrendanNyhan

      A small effect per person at a time in a feedback cycle (person-algo-person-algo-person) over time in a transitional time (when all the big players are reacting to it by adjusting output) can quickly add up to a substantial societal transition, though.

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
      zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 31 Mar 2021
      Replying to @zeynep @chris_bail @BrendanNyhan

      I'm all fine assuming small individual effects (on average) but that feedback cycle plus the incentive reshaping for all players (including those classified incorrectly as "non-algortithmic") can be both substantial & easy to miss with cross-sectional methods with narrow data.

      3:52 PM - 31 Mar 2021
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Chris Bail‏ @chris_bail 31 Mar 2021
          Replying to @zeynep @BrendanNyhan

          Agreed. But wouldn't you also agree that the evidence to support the algorithm hypothesis could similarly be confounded by all sorts of other similar processes and management issues?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Chris Bail‏ @chris_bail 31 Mar 2021
          Replying to @chris_bail @zeynep @BrendanNyhan

          *measurement* issues.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. End of conversation

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