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zeynep's profile
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
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@zeynep

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zeynep tufekciVerified account

@zeynep

Complex systems, wicked problems. Society, technology, science and more. @UNC professor. @NYTimes columnist. My newsletter is @insight: http://www.theinsight.org 

floating in a most peculiar way
theinsight.org
Joined August 2009

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    1. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 16 Mar 2021
      Replying to @gregggonsalves @apoorva_nyc and

      That's what it may take, this time, too. As we've seen with HIV, too, it's perfectly plausible for effective drugs to shield a select few for a very, very long time—and the "but it will mutate elsewhere" never become realized as a big enough threat to move the needle.

      2 replies 2 retweets 9 likes
    2. James Krellenstein‏ @jbkrell 16 Mar 2021
      Replying to @zeynep @gregggonsalves and

      I don’t think that is a proper analogy. In HIV, cART drugs suppress HIV replication by targeting various stages in the viral life cycle. So a large untreated population, which is not exposed to cART drugs, experiences no selective pressure to develop resistance mutations.

      5 replies 2 retweets 9 likes
    3. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 16 Mar 2021
      Replying to @jbkrell @gregggonsalves and

      The analogy isn't to the type of virus at all, it is to the type of appeals made to ordinary people in wealthy countries.

      1 reply 2 retweets 5 likes
    4. James Krellenstein‏ @jbkrell 16 Mar 2021
      Replying to @zeynep @gregggonsalves and

      Perhaps we are speaking pass each other. But I think given what we know about coronaviruses, theAbsence of universal global vaccination will actually pose a threat to rich people and rich countries. And therefore unlike HIV the selfish argument works

      3 replies 3 retweets 10 likes
    5. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 16 Mar 2021
      Replying to @jbkrell @gregggonsalves and

      And I'm merely pointing out that some people back then also thought the selfish HIV argument would work (I heard it a lot at the time!) and it did not really work.Y'all had to push. Is there an example of it working? (Yes we all agree shouldn't have to come down to this).

      3 replies 2 retweets 11 likes
    6. Matthew Kavanagh‏ @MMKavanagh 16 Mar 2021
      Replying to @zeynep @jbkrell and

      I think actually this is not empirically true, the CIA document describing HIV as a security threat changed a lot of people’s footing inside the USG even if that’s not what they said it was about

      1 reply 1 retweet 7 likes
    7. Matthew Kavanagh‏ @MMKavanagh 16 Mar 2021
      Replying to @MMKavanagh @zeynep and

      I don’t like it, didn’t at the time, but it was persuasive to several governments

      1 reply 1 retweet 4 likes
    8. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 16 Mar 2021
      Replying to @MMKavanagh @jbkrell and

      I guess it can move elite opinion. See that with climate, too. (We all agree let's not be sociopaths isn't the argument anyone prefers). I don't see such arguments moving public opinion in a positive way though: historically, such fears end up with demanding closure/exclusion.

      1 reply 1 retweet 3 likes
    9. Matthew Kavanagh‏ @MMKavanagh 16 Mar 2021
      Replying to @zeynep @jbkrell and

      Right so question is what moves policy though—is it public opinion? I think less than elite opinion on these questions

      1 reply 2 retweets 4 likes
    10. Matthew Kavanagh‏ @MMKavanagh 16 Mar 2021
      Replying to @MMKavanagh @zeynep and

      If you look at HIV we moved public opinion along with policy not before

      1 reply 1 retweet 6 likes
      zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 16 Mar 2021
      Replying to @MMKavanagh @jbkrell and

      I'm willing to buy that that this argument may be the one that moves elite opinion and perhaps that matters more. Elites aren't always rational but they do tend to, often incorrectly, have a Hobbesian view of the public when it is often them, not the public, that is prone to it.

      5:47 AM - 16 Mar 2021
      • 1 Retweet
      • 3 Likes
      • Information Junkie 👨‍💻 Gregg Gonsalves
      3 replies 1 retweet 3 likes
        1. Apoorva Mandavilli‏Verified account @apoorva_nyc 16 Mar 2021
          Replying to @zeynep @MMKavanagh and

          When the term “Hobbesian” appears on Twitter, it’s my cue to exit the conversation. Thanks for the stimulating chat, all

          0 replies 1 retweet 10 likes
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        2. Matthew Kavanagh‏ @MMKavanagh 16 Mar 2021
          Replying to @zeynep @jbkrell and

          Yes exactly this 👆. And there it matters some how sound the rationale is—so I think the questions you’re raising are key and also we should be cautious because if it is scientifically sound (leave that to the virologists) then we want this argument in the arsenal

          1 reply 1 retweet 4 likes
        3. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 16 Mar 2021
          Replying to @MMKavanagh @jbkrell and

          Yeah, as my piece says, nobody doubts that eliminating unchecked viral propagation is better, but strong evidence that all three variants of concern may have risen through chronic individual infections plus antiviral treatments (One in the UK! Not "over there").

          2 replies 2 retweets 6 likes
        4. Show replies
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        2. Ed Cara‏Verified account @EdCara4 16 Mar 2021
          Replying to @zeynep @MMKavanagh and

          Not to prolong this more than needed, but wasn't Ryan White a key reason why HIV/AIDS began to be taken more seriously—an example of the disease hitting closer to home?

          2 replies 2 retweets 0 likes
        3. Gregg Gonsalves‏Verified account @gregggonsalves 16 Mar 2021
          Replying to @EdCara4 @zeynep and

          Happened earlier. Not influential in global access to AIDS treatment.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        4. Show replies

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