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zeynep's profile
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
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@zeynep

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zeynep tufekciVerified account

@zeynep

Complex systems, wicked problems. Society, technology, science and more. @UNC professor. @NYTimes columnist. My newsletter is @insight: http://www.theinsight.org 

floating in a most peculiar way
theinsight.org
Joined August 2009

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    1. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 9 Feb 2021

      zeynep tufekci Retweeted

      So, I'm not going to tag all the folks I've had disagreements with for *months* now, since December, who didn't believe me that our bungled messaging on post-vaccine transmission was fueling vaccine hesitancy. 😬How many examples have we heard now? I hear this every single day. https://t.co/AmOgwNgx39 

      zeynep tufekci added,

      This Tweet is unavailable.
      73 replies 503 retweets 2,557 likes
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    2. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 9 Feb 2021

      To make it clear, the remedy isn't to give false or unsubstantiated hope, but to get out of the "we don't know" trap when we *do* have some sense of the direction, but need more clarity with data (which we can say), and also to emphasize the real upside!

      13 replies 44 retweets 581 likes
      Show this thread
    3. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 9 Feb 2021

      zeynep tufekci Retweeted joseph osmundson (all pronouns)

      See what people accuse me of, when I make the most basic point? That I suggested that we "just lie to people", or "express certainty about something we don't know." Exactly the problem that I'm talking about.https://twitter.com/reluctantlyjoe/status/1359333090573881350 …

      zeynep tufekci added,

      joseph osmundson (all pronouns) @reluctantlyjoe
      great so then let's just lie to people and express certainty about something we don't know that will definitely help us in the long run 🙃🙃🙃 https://twitter.com/zeynep/status/1359328328264658949 …
      9 replies 13 retweets 349 likes
      Show this thread
    4. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 9 Feb 2021

      zeynep tufekci Retweeted joseph osmundson (all pronouns)

      So worth dissecting. The fear is "people are gonna wanna.. go wild" if they hear the correct message that we do expect the vaccines to reduce transmission, but we're waiting for more data before relaxing the guidance. So we say "we don't know" when we do.https://twitter.com/reluctantlyjoe/status/1359340516689723394 …

      zeynep tufekci added,

      joseph osmundson (all pronouns) @reluctantlyjoe
      Replying to @MattNoahSmith @jbender22 @zeynep
      i'm great with HOPE! i love HOPE! and yet it's critically important that – while vaccines are scarce – we stay the course on NPIs, vaccinated or not. *that* messaging is actually hard. People are gonna wanna get the shot and go wild! And – for a million reasons – we can't do that
      11 replies 28 retweets 284 likes
      Show this thread
    5. joseph osmundson (all pronouns)‏ @reluctantlyjoe 9 Feb 2021
      Replying to @zeynep

      provide evidence that we *KNOW* that transmission is inhibited please. what is your metric for KNOWING something that is going to affect literally hundreds of millions of human lives, because i think that's where we disagree.

      3 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    6. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 9 Feb 2021
      Replying to @reluctantlyjoe

      zeynep tufekci Retweeted Aaron Richterman, MD

      I don't know why it isn't clear, as I've been insisting for months and write everywhere, that we can say "we know it will blunt transmission somewhat, but we're waiting for more data for changes to guidelines." Here's a thread from Aaron, but there's more.https://twitter.com/AaronRichterman/status/1358778637638639619 …

      zeynep tufekci added,

      Aaron Richterman, MD @AaronRichterman
      12a. And real world data from Israel. Interesting analysis inferring vaccine status by age and following cycle thresholds over time, suggesting lower VL in vaccinees w infection. Cool time series. Caveat: unclear what symptom status is but assume mostly symptom prompted testing. https://twitter.com/erlichya/status/1358477762495930368 …
      Show this thread
      2 replies 1 retweet 10 likes
    7. joseph osmundson (all pronouns)‏ @reluctantlyjoe 9 Feb 2021
      Replying to @zeynep

      you know i'm a microbiologist right. i disagree with what you've been writing for months and months. as do many other experts.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 9 Feb 2021
      Replying to @reluctantlyjoe

      So do you think that we don't know if the vaccines will reduce transmission at all? That we just don't know? There is no evidence yet? It's a complete unknown?

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    9. joseph osmundson (all pronouns)‏ @reluctantlyjoe 9 Feb 2021
      Replying to @zeynep

      there are data that argue in both directions, have you forgotten about the non-human primate data showing lots of replication but no disease post vaccination? i am optimistic that it will prevent mild infection. until i'm more than optimistic, i'll be honest about what we know!

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 9 Feb 2021
      Replying to @reluctantlyjoe

      I'm asking about infectiousness, not whether there's 100% sterilizing immunity. Asking for real: do you believe that we have no idea if vaccines reduce infectiousness? That this is an unknown, and that "we don't know if vaccines will reduce transmission" is the correct statement?

      7:38 PM - 9 Feb 2021
      • 3 Likes
      • drew Can Sar joey
      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. joseph osmundson (all pronouns)‏ @reluctantlyjoe 9 Feb 2021
          Replying to @zeynep

          honestly "there's no idea" and "we don't know" and "we know" are different things. we're talking about science that will drive policy that will affect hundreds of millions (maybe billions) of human people. this is the highest need for scientific clarity and we aren't there yet!

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 9 Feb 2021
          Replying to @reluctantlyjoe

          I'm asking a very very specific question. Is your belief that we don't know if vaccines will reduce transmission and infectiousness among the vaccinated. Once we get through your belief on that, we can discuss adjacent/corollary, what makes people "go wild."

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        4. Show replies

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