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zeynep's profile
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
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@zeynep

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zeynep tufekciVerified account

@zeynep

Complex systems, wicked problems. Society, technology, science and more. @UNC professor. @NYTimes columnist. My newsletter is @insight: http://www.theinsight.org 

floating in a most peculiar way
theinsight.org
Joined August 2009

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    1. Ryan Horath‏ @therealrthorat 11 Jan 2021
      Replying to @wowwowza @zeynep @HHampikyan

      1) The only RCT we have found no statistical effect, and at best a weak effect for masks (which is what I claimed). 2) It's on mask proponents to prove masks work. We don't assume they do and force someone to prove they don't. That's not how science works.

      3 replies 0 retweets 8 likes
    2. w.o.‏ @wowwowza 11 Jan 2021
      Replying to @therealrthorat @zeynep @HHampikyan

      You can't design a RTC for population-level effects of mask wearing. The idea you need RTC before creating public health policy is crazy. What RTC do they have for travel bans? None, so you are saying Trump needed an RTC to justify restricting travel. It's just absurd logic.

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    3. Ryan Horath‏ @therealrthorat 11 Jan 2021
      Replying to @wowwowza @zeynep @HHampikyan

      I didn't say we needed an RCT before using masks. But we do need one before we can really say they work. This is basic science. Your "faith" in masks is no different than the faith religious people have in their God. Like you, they can marshal all sorts of observational evidence.

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    4. w.o.‏ @wowwowza 11 Jan 2021
      Replying to @therealrthorat @zeynep @HHampikyan

      We still don't have a RCT for travel bans, but the data does suggest it slows the introduction of disease. We can justify the policy. It's thin evidence cloth masks protect the wearer, but they are likely good source control from the evidence. That's good enough for the policy.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    5. Ryan Horath‏ @therealrthorat 11 Jan 2021
      Replying to @wowwowza @zeynep @HHampikyan

      1) Travel bans logically make sense: you are physically stopping the virus from entering. And they also don't work once you have enough introductions. 2) The same is not true for masks. We don't know they block anything. All the theoretical data is based on droplets - it's wrong.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    6. Ryan Horath‏ @therealrthorat 11 Jan 2021
      Replying to @therealrthorat @wowwowza and

      3) Masks also have downsides in that they can change behavior. The theoretical data cannot assess this. 4) Travel bans can change behavior too! Announced bans led to people fleeing before the ban, which likely increased spread. These things are not so easy.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    7. w.o.‏ @wowwowza 11 Jan 2021
      Replying to @therealrthorat @zeynep @HHampikyan

      It is foolish to create theoretical changed before erases more straight forward theoretical advantages without a study demonstrating a neutral or negative correlation. Clearly you want policy execution/messaging to minimize counteractive responses to policy.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Ryan Horath‏ @therealrthorat 11 Jan 2021
      Replying to @wowwowza @zeynep @HHampikyan

      Difficult to parse your tweet, but it sounds like you are saying we should assume there are no downsides to an intervention until someone has proven they exist? Count me out of that train.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    9. w.o.‏ @wowwowza 11 Jan 2021
      Replying to @therealrthorat @zeynep @HHampikyan

      I'm saying you have to get one step removed from the actual policy and theoretical effect without any evidence. We know masks would likely be good source control. We don't know if that would make people feel safer to be closer or remind them to keep their distance.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Ryan Horath‏ @therealrthorat 11 Jan 2021
      Replying to @wowwowza @zeynep @HHampikyan

      "We know masks would likely be good source control." No, we don't. We have theoretical data that rests on assumptions that appear to be false. And we have lots of historical data that points to null result.

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
      zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 11 Jan 2021
      Replying to @therealrthorat @wowwowza @HHampikyan

      Ryan, can you drop me from the thread? There's so much actual scientific work at this point that masks work that I am not going to respond to individual tweeters. We don't just have theoretical data, scientists have published so many excellent papers that I have lost count. Bye!

      2:32 PM - 11 Jan 2021
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      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
        1. Ryan Horath‏ @therealrthorat 11 Jan 2021
          Replying to @zeynep @wowwowza @HHampikyan

          And yet you didn't list a single one. I have yet to see an expert in analysis and design of data who thinks the evidence for masks is of any quality, let alone "excellent papers". It's just not reality.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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