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zeynep's profile
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
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@zeynep

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zeynep tufekciVerified account

@zeynep

Complex systems, wicked problems. Society, technology, science and more. @UNC professor. @NYTimes columnist. My newsletter is @insight: http://www.theinsight.org 

floating in a most peculiar way
theinsight.org
Joined August 2009

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    1. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 3 Dec 2020
      Replying to @WesPegden

      You need proper large N studies for that, meanwhile we still cannot get people to accept the transmission paths highlighted by these studies, i.e. indoor dining is not a good idea.

      6 replies 8 retweets 317 likes
    2. Wes Pegden‏ @WesPegden 3 Dec 2020
      Replying to @zeynep

      Obviously I agree this can make the case that these transmission paths can happen. But using the existence of any reports as the basis for policy decisions would ban outdoor dining as well, along with schools, etc.

      3 replies 1 retweet 33 likes
    3. Carlo Dallapiccola‏ @CarloDallapicc1 3 Dec 2020
      Replying to @WesPegden @zeynep

      I agree with Wes. Be very careful when taking a single event and generalizing it. The article itself is fairly careful not to make stronger statements than warranted, using principles all scientists follow. "Evidence of..." "...is possible." In the event that the 1/2

      3 replies 0 retweets 9 likes
    4. Kucco Song‏ @KuccoSong 3 Dec 2020
      Replying to @CarloDallapicc1 @WesPegden @zeynep

      You gotta realize one case is already very significant with so few cases in East Asia. Chinese researchers also. published serval papers on how air flow results in long range transmission in restaurants & bus settings This is basically mask thing all over again

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    5. Carlo Dallapiccola‏ @CarloDallapicc1 3 Dec 2020
      Replying to @KuccoSong @WesPegden @zeynep

      I agree on the part about few cases in S. Korea. But, still, how can you reliably say that because this particular chain of transmissions happened this way, in this setting, it is more commonplace than other chains of transmission in other settings? You cannot. This is 1/2

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    6. Carlo Dallapiccola‏ @CarloDallapicc1 3 Dec 2020
      Replying to @CarloDallapicc1 @KuccoSong and

      the foundation of statistical analysis to infer probability of different hypotheses. The bus of monks and the restaurant in China are two other well-documented cases. The statistics on which we are trying to base broad conclusions is very small, unfortunately. 2/3

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    7. Carlo Dallapiccola‏ @CarloDallapicc1 3 Dec 2020
      Replying to @CarloDallapicc1 @KuccoSong and

      There are too many things being inferred, without a legitimate basis. Maybe you think I am being overly rigorous in my reasoning - but this is how scientists reason and reach conclusions.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    8. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 3 Dec 2020
      Replying to @CarloDallapicc1 @KuccoSong @WesPegden

      Or maybe you are not following the evidence, if you only knw three cases. There's a database with 1600+ mass transmission events (more than a few people infected) and there are only maybe two pure outdoor cases. There have been thousands and thousands of reports.

      2 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
    9. Carlo Dallapiccola‏ @CarloDallapicc1 3 Dec 2020
      Replying to @zeynep @KuccoSong @WesPegden

      I follow your logic, yes. Is there a statistical analysis of the 1600+ mass transmission events published/documented somewhere? I am curious. Do we have to worry about over-representation of scenarios where identifying the transmission chain is easiest?

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    10. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 3 Dec 2020
      Replying to @CarloDallapicc1 @KuccoSong @WesPegden

      So yes, I agree there is certainly some bias in terms of what's easier to trace (fomite/aerosol is very hard to distinguish, for example) but the ratios are really overwhelming. This is the spreadsheet. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1c9jwMyT1lw2P0d6SDTno6nHLGMtpheO9xJyGHgdBoco/edit#gid=1812932356 … And

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 3 Dec 2020
      Replying to @zeynep @CarloDallapicc1 and

      But I've been reading transmission papers pretty much every day since March, and yes ideally I'd have kept better records myself, but there have been more systematic meta-reviews. It's almost all outdoors to the degree that would be really hard to explain by tracing bias.

      6:02 PM - 3 Dec 2020
      • 1 Like
      • Carlo Dallapiccola
      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        1. Carlo Dallapiccola‏ @CarloDallapicc1 3 Dec 2020
          Replying to @zeynep @KuccoSong @WesPegden

          Thanks, I will look at that!

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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