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zeynep's profile
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
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@zeynep

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zeynep tufekciVerified account

@zeynep

Complex systems, wicked problems. Society, technology, science and more. @UNC professor. @NYTimes columnist. My newsletter is @insight: http://www.theinsight.org 

floating in a most peculiar way
theinsight.org
Joined August 2009

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    1. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 14 Jul 2020

      See this, too. Physics of masks keeping larger particles from going *out* and what happens when they get out and evaporate and become smaller and thus harder to stop from coming *in* are different. Cloth masks in the community are not same as PPE for HCWs. https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-about-masks-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent …pic.twitter.com/ZW7CXbvQwX

      2 replies 25 retweets 129 likes
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    2. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 14 Jul 2020

      Of course. She's been *very loud* the whole time. That' her right there. She's given many interviews, wrote articles. Even explained why her study is not a recommendation against masks for source control, and even ways to make cloth masks safer. https://twitter.com/KoenSwinkels/status/1283058248917155840 …pic.twitter.com/36Q9l0Bc2t

      5 replies 20 retweets 134 likes
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    3. Koen‏ @KoenSwinkels 14 Jul 2020
      Replying to @zeynep

      A bit strange, the meta-review article she cites now to support mask use does not include her 2015 article that concluded cloth masks likely caused some harm. Also, I wonder how different the meta review's results would have been if a much larger role for aerosols was includedpic.twitter.com/rMGOM6sxYG

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Koen‏ @KoenSwinkels 14 Jul 2020
      Replying to @KoenSwinkels @zeynep

      I could be reading this wrong, but their certainty about the efficacy of mask wearing — and that is even assuming that large droplets are the main driver of transmission, which seems increasingly unlikely — is pretty low. But mandating mask wearing is a huge intervention.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Koen‏ @KoenSwinkels 14 Jul 2020
      Replying to @KoenSwinkels @zeynep

      Wouldn't stronger evidence be needed to justify it, es because her own previous study suggested it also caused harm? And has other negative effects? Also, in her theconversation article she does say those at risk should wear masks, that they protect against incoming drops.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Earl Hill‏ @EHill73 14 Jul 2020
      Replying to @KoenSwinkels @zeynep

      Earl Hill Retweeted Andrew Bostom, MD, MS

      Key word in that "modeling". I don't think there is 1 RCT study that shows mask work. Here's one that says they don't.https://twitter.com/andrewbostom/status/1282674441340821506?s=20 …

      Earl Hill added,

      Andrew Bostom, MD, MS @andrewbostom
      Covid-1984 Effect, Redux: “Why Face Masks Don’t Work: A Revealing Review”. This carefully annotated 2016 review was removed https://www.oralhealthgroup.com/features/face-masks-dont-work-revealing-review/ …, but fortunately archived. The title & conclusions explain why. https://web.archive.org/web/20170512002228/https://www.oralhealthgroup.com/features/face-masks-dont-work-revealing-review/ … pic.twitter.com/uclhR1ysLZ
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 14 Jul 2020
      Replying to @EHill73 @KoenSwinkels

      How would you design an RCT for source control? I don’t think you’re understanding the population level variable and constantly stuck on the PPE question.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Earl Hill‏ @EHill73 14 Jul 2020
      Replying to @zeynep @KoenSwinkels

      So, true, or false, "models" are the proof that is used to show that mask work?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 14 Jul 2020
      Replying to @EHill73 @KoenSwinkels

      Of course not. There are many different types of evidence right now ranging from lab studies to natural and quasi-experiments. True or false is a juvenile way of arguing. This is not middle school.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Earl Hill‏ @EHill73 14 Jul 2020
      Replying to @zeynep @KoenSwinkels

      Just trying to get answers from you. Which holds more water as scientific proof, RCT studies or "lab studies to natural and quasi-experiments"?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 14 Jul 2020
      Replying to @EHill73 @KoenSwinkels

      With a population level variable tell me your RCT design. For source control? I don’t think you understand. Source control cannot be measured by wearer.

      10:57 AM - 14 Jul 2020
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes

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