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zeynep's profile
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
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@zeynep

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zeynep tufekciVerified account

@zeynep

Complex systems, wicked problems. Society, technology, science and more. @UNC professor. @NYTimes columnist. My newsletter is @insight: http://www.theinsight.org 

floating in a most peculiar way
theinsight.org
Joined August 2009

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    1. Prof. Jose-Luis Jimenez‏Verified account @jljcolorado 11 Jul 2020

      8/ Guangzhou restaurant, buses, other cases. “Contorsionist thinking” (B. Nazaroff) required to explain w/o aerosols - Note that when face-to-face, majority of infection likely through aerosols, much more concentrated right in front of person:https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0360132320302183 …

      5 replies 39 retweets 164 likes
      Show this thread
    2. Prof. Jose-Luis Jimenez‏Verified account @jljcolorado 11 Jul 2020

      9/ -There is PCC both indoors & outdoors. Drops are ballistic, no time for dilution or UV to remove virus, don’t care indoors or outdoors, should be similar. Aerosols are carried by the wind, incredible dilution, more time for UV to destroy virus (very quick).

      8 replies 35 retweets 176 likes
      Show this thread
    3. Prof. Jose-Luis Jimenez‏Verified account @jljcolorado 11 Jul 2020

      10/ Run Skagit choir case in aerosol transmission estimator (https://tinyurl.com/covid-estimator  “choir” sheet), reproduces infection rate. Now move exact choir outdoors (“outdoors” sheet), infection drops from 83% to 0.4%.

      3 replies 64 retweets 256 likes
      Show this thread
    4. Prof. Jose-Luis Jimenez‏Verified account @jljcolorado 11 Jul 2020

      11/ Real-world: "The vast majority of transmission seems to be through close contact with an infected individual, primarily in an indoor setting." (CBC article above). Only aerosols can explain this.

      8 replies 81 retweets 310 likes
      Show this thread
    5. Prof. Jose-Luis Jimenez‏Verified account @jljcolorado 11 Jul 2020

      12/ Conclusion: for the first time, I am ready to say publicly that my *guess* is that the majority (>50%) of the spread is through aerosols. Pls comment w/ your take. @linseymarr @ShellyMBoulder @CathNoakes @Don_Milton @SaskiaPopescu @angie_rasmussen @eliowa @GidMK

      29 replies 106 retweets 402 likes
      Show this thread
    6. Dr. Angela Rasmussen‏Verified account @angie_rasmussen 12 Jul 2020
      Replying to @jljcolorado @linseymarr and

      Since the case reports of the Guangzhou restaurant and the South Korean call center, its been pretty clear that spread occurs through inhaled droplets/aerosols regardless of size. I don’t think we have enough evidence to say how much or to exclude fomite transmission. 1/2

      2 replies 6 retweets 42 likes
    7. Dr. Angela Rasmussen‏Verified account @angie_rasmussen 12 Jul 2020
      Replying to @angie_rasmussen @jljcolorado and

      I think the real problem has been communication across disciplines. The terminology is confusing and means different things to different people, which is why I agree with @SaskiaPopescu that we need to reconsider the language we use to discuss “airborne” transmission. 2/2

      4 replies 8 retweets 52 likes
    8. S. Geuns-Meyer‏ @geunsmeyer 12 Jul 2020
      Replying to @angie_rasmussen @jljcolorado and

      Yes — my current layperson’s understanding is that the the Guangzhou restaurant case establishes that aerosol transmission occurred because long distance. Also aerosol transmission ruled out because no Brownian motion transmission beyond the air conditioner’s trajectory. Amirite?

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
    9. Dr. Angela Rasmussen‏Verified account @angie_rasmussen 12 Jul 2020
      Replying to @geunsmeyer @jljcolorado and

      The Guangzhou restaurant suggested that air currents resulted in exposure to airborne droplets that could have been inhaled. But yes, because there wasn't widespread transmission throughout the restaurant, that argues against small particle aerosols. IMO the main issue here is...

      3 replies 3 retweets 22 likes
    10. Dr. Angela Rasmussen‏Verified account @angie_rasmussen 12 Jul 2020
      Replying to @angie_rasmussen @geunsmeyer and

      ...what people mean when they say "aerosols" or "airborne". Different disciplines mean different things, and that's different from how the general public understand these terms, adding to the confusion. This is a communication issue and that's why the terminology needs revising.

      4 replies 3 retweets 31 likes
      zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 12 Jul 2020
      Replying to @angie_rasmussen @geunsmeyer and

      Maybe we will need to consider the role of A/C for indoors, and focus on behavior, not just size. If it were classic aerosol (to stabilize terminology, say, < 5 μm) spread for Guangzhou case, why were only people down-wind of the A/C currents infected, but not one table over?

      2:59 PM - 12 Jul 2020
      • 2 Retweets
      • 16 Likes
      • JerBear Information Junkie 👨‍💻 Emilyrobin jjmplsmn🗽 unique indemnifier m duncan InViennaVeritas🔴 wendylee May Lim 💉😷🚶‍♀️🍃
      3 replies 2 retweets 16 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 12 Jul 2020
          Replying to @zeynep @angie_rasmussen and

          So multiple issues. The lack of consistent terminology plus not enough current research on different size particles in different ventilation circumstances indoors. It's not measles, obviously, but it's also infecting people not within classic droplet reach. Appreciate this convo!

          1 reply 5 retweets 11 likes
        3. Alfie‏ @WndlB 12 Jul 2020
          Replying to @zeynep @angie_rasmussen and

          That puts it well, as to where it is on the range, pending a lot more VERY carefully controlled observation and research.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. End of conversation
        1. New conversation
        2. Dr. Angela Rasmussen‏Verified account @angie_rasmussen 12 Jul 2020
          Replying to @zeynep @geunsmeyer and

          We do certainly need to focus on air flow, as well as behavior, but that's why "airborne" and "aerosol" need updating. The downwind effect suggests that it probably wasn't small particle aerosols, but this gets right to the heart of the terminology issues...

          2 replies 5 retweets 29 likes
        3. Dr. Angela Rasmussen‏Verified account @angie_rasmussen 12 Jul 2020
          Replying to @angie_rasmussen @zeynep and

          ...what's the difference between a < 5 um aerosol vs a slightly larger airborne droplet? Not having good terminology muddies the water and makes it hard to communicate effectively with each other and with the public.

          4 replies 3 retweets 21 likes
        4. Show replies
        1. Lucas Rocha-Melogno, PhD‏ @Lucas_Bolivian 13 Jul 2020
          Replying to @zeynep @angie_rasmussen and

          Probably because the concentrations downwind were higher given the wind speed/direction and the air recirculation flow pattern. Please check Yuguo Li’s pre-print for an in-depth analysis: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.16.20067728v1.full.pdf+html …

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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