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zeynep's profile
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
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@zeynep

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zeynep tufekciVerified account

@zeynep

Complex systems, wicked problems. Society, technology, science and more. @UNC professor. @NYTimes columnist. My newsletter is @insight: http://www.theinsight.org 

floating in a most peculiar way
theinsight.org
Joined August 2009

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    1. Caroline Orr Bueno, Ph.D‏ @RVAwonk 15 Jun 2020
      Replying to @RVAwonk @ggreenwald

      Caroline Orr Bueno, Ph.D Retweeted Caroline Orr Bueno, Ph.D

      And the surgeon general. https://twitter.com/rvawonk/status/1241493278173868038?s=21 …https://twitter.com/RVAwonk/status/1241493278173868038 …

      Caroline Orr Bueno, Ph.D added,

      Caroline Orr Bueno, Ph.D @RVAwonk
      And here's the Surgeon General reminding Americans about the current guidance around medical masks for the general population. https://twitter.com/Surgeon_General/status/1233725785283932160?s=20 …
      Show this thread
      3 replies 1 retweet 5 likes
    2. Caroline Orr Bueno, Ph.D‏ @RVAwonk 15 Jun 2020
      Replying to @RVAwonk @ggreenwald

      Happy to discuss the evolving nature of science, poor communication from government & medical orgs, & the lack of consensus surrounding mask usage. But I’m not sure what you’re getting at by pointing to a thread (based on CDC guidelines) about the need for clear communication.

      4 replies 2 retweets 11 likes
    3. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 15 Jun 2020
      Replying to @RVAwonk @ggreenwald

      That's why I didn't single you out but you realize every single thing you claimed in that viral thread (and I tried to tell you otherwise) was wrong? The alleged increased risk, false sense of security, lack of benefit? Every single claim you made except shortage was 100% wrong.

      2 replies 3 retweets 36 likes
    4. Caroline Orr Bueno, Ph.D‏ @RVAwonk 15 Jun 2020
      Replying to @zeynep @ggreenwald

      Just to be clear: Those claims claim from the CDC. And yes, most turned out to be wrong. Also, at the time, there was little (if any) distinction between protecting self vs others. But do we have research from US showing that mask usage doesn’t confer a false sense of security?

      1 reply 0 retweets 7 likes
    5. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 15 Jun 2020
      Replying to @RVAwonk @ggreenwald

      Yes, they came from the CDC and they were all wrong. That's my point, and I kept trying to talk with people like you to point to the evidence that they were wrong. And for lack of false sense of security? Yes, we have decades of evidence from many other safety devices.

      2 replies 1 retweet 23 likes
    6. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 15 Jun 2020
      Replying to @zeynep @RVAwonk @ggreenwald

      As I very publicly argued back then, false sense of security is trotted out against every safety device/intervention (seat belts, helmets, safe sex) and has been researched to death. You can find individual examples, but it never overwhelms the safety benefit. But that's not all.

      3 replies 2 retweets 30 likes
    7. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 15 Jun 2020
      Replying to @zeynep @RVAwonk @ggreenwald

      Also, if it were true, it would just as much apply to hand-washing or even distancing. (But good news, it's not true). Plus, there is all the experience of Asia. Plus, social science suggested that masks would *increase* overall caution. But even that's not all.

      1 reply 0 retweets 15 likes
    8. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 15 Jun 2020
      Replying to @zeynep @RVAwonk @ggreenwald

      We have since had actual research from this pandemic that shows, unsurprisingly, that the actual result is, as expected, masks increase distancing behaviors (how could they not?). False sense of security for safety devices, to put it politely, is pop psychology.

      1 reply 5 retweets 21 likes
    9. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 15 Jun 2020
      Replying to @zeynep @RVAwonk @ggreenwald

      There was also no of evidence or even a logical claim for "harms" of mask wearing compared to no masks. Most relevant studies were about health care workers and they compared some masks to other masks. Not ever to no masks. Plus not for egress (PPE is ingress).

      2 replies 1 retweet 18 likes
    10. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 15 Jun 2020
      Replying to @zeynep @RVAwonk @ggreenwald

      And the asymptomatic transmission? I wrote a NYT op-ed trashing the misleading of the public by the CDC and the WHO in mid-March & I could point to asymptomatic transmission as a key reason because.. well, the research was out! I'm not the only one in the world with eyes, right?pic.twitter.com/xmPpLoTrob

      1 reply 1 retweet 19 likes
      zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 15 Jun 2020
      Replying to @zeynep @RVAwonk @ggreenwald

      Again, I am hoping people notice that this isn't "evolving" evidence. We were misled, and badly, and it is a great failure that there wasn't a loud and public push-back. Instead, many, like you, just repeated the CDC (I get it) and people like me were treated like anti-vaxxers.

      1:15 PM - 15 Jun 2020
      • 3 Retweets
      • 29 Likes
      • 🫀Faded Rosie (from days gone by) Dr. S.J. Martin Michelle Orange Juche D-Cubed icebox plums (any%) Shirley 🌻 Frank Gilbane David Foulser
      2 replies 3 retweets 29 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 15 Jun 2020
          Replying to @zeynep @RVAwonk @ggreenwald

          To emphasize: it's not about you. It was practically everyone. I never thought I'd spend the first months of a pandemic arguing with people that the CDC & the WHO are wrong. But that's what had to be done because that's where the facts were. The groupthink has been disappointing.

          5 replies 1 retweet 18 likes
        3. Run more buses and trains (and nothing else)!‏ @HeadwaysMatter 15 Jun 2020
          Replying to @zeynep @RVAwonk @ggreenwald

          Practically everyone was wrong. But not everyone, at this late day, continues to insist There's Still No Proof Masks Don't Make Things Worse.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. End of conversation
        1. Caroline Orr Bueno, Ph.D‏ @RVAwonk 15 Jun 2020
          Replying to @zeynep @ggreenwald

          I don’t think I treated you like an anti-vaxxer, and certainly didn’t intend to. And if I did, I apologize. At the time, the primary concern was to ensure that frontline workers had sufficient PPE. This wouldn’t change the underlying evidence, but would influence recommendations.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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