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zeynep's profile
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
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@zeynep

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zeynep tufekciVerified account

@zeynep

Complex systems, wicked problems. Society, technology, science and more. @UNC professor. @NYTimes columnist. My newsletter is @insight: http://www.theinsight.org 

floating in a most peculiar way
theinsight.org
Joined August 2009

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    1. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 9 May 2020
      Replying to @YIMBY_Princeton @HeadwaysMatter @mattyglesias

      The evidence is pretty clear with high-risk activities and helmets. For low-risk riding (bikes etc.) it's not clear there is a huge risk to begin with--depends on the set-up.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Run more buses and trains (and nothing else)!‏ @HeadwaysMatter 9 May 2020
      Replying to @zeynep @YIMBY_Princeton @mattyglesias

      Wikipedia says-haven't checked sources cited-that for the very highest risk activities/thrill sports improved equipment hasn't decreased injuries/deaths. It appears that risk might be the point--so better parachutes or anchors won't reduce death rate among skydivers, ice climbers

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 9 May 2020
      Replying to @HeadwaysMatter @YIMBY_Princeton @mattyglesias

      I suggest reading the research! Researchers think of all these obvious things, you know.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Central NJ Yimby  🇺🇸 🚲 🏙‏ @YIMBY_Princeton 9 May 2020
      Replying to @zeynep @HeadwaysMatter @mattyglesias

      In the case of bike helmets I accept that the evidence is mixed. But in general it is reasonable for public health professionals to carefully weigh the possibility of increased risky behavior in the context of a medication that is perceived to be effectivehttps://bmcinfectdis.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2334-11-118 …

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Central NJ Yimby  🇺🇸 🚲 🏙‏ @YIMBY_Princeton 9 May 2020
      Replying to @YIMBY_Princeton @zeynep and

      Especially when it comes to a treatment (BCG vaccine) for which the evidence of efficacy is very poor, and for which there are other good reasons to think that trying to push it out to the wider population would have other adverse consequences.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 9 May 2020
      Replying to @YIMBY_Princeton @HeadwaysMatter @mattyglesias

      1-Helmets are not just for bikes! Is biking high-risk? Depends where/how. 2-If there are reasons to be concerned, and I don't disagree, we can talk about the actual reasons. Making up stuff backfires. It did with masks.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Central NJ Yimby  🇺🇸 🚲 🏙‏ @YIMBY_Princeton 9 May 2020
      Replying to @zeynep @HeadwaysMatter @mattyglesias

      They're not "making stuff up" though. They are applying the best public health practice and a precautionary approach, instead of recommending things for which they have no evidence of efficacy.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 9 May 2020
      Replying to @YIMBY_Princeton @HeadwaysMatter @mattyglesias

      You can do that without making up threats that have been debunked and aren’t real. Also for masks, the precautionary principle was clearly on the side of mask wearing except for the made up threats. The threats were literally made up. No relevant citations ever.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    9. Central NJ Yimby  🇺🇸 🚲 🏙‏ @YIMBY_Princeton 9 May 2020
      Replying to @zeynep @HeadwaysMatter @mattyglesias

      With availability of HIV triple therapy, public health professionals were concerned about increased risky behavior. That was a reasonable concern, and there is some evidence to support that it was a valid concern. The same principle holds for face masks or anything else...

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Central NJ Yimby  🇺🇸 🚲 🏙‏ @YIMBY_Princeton 9 May 2020
      Replying to @YIMBY_Princeton @zeynep and

      ...the way I would frame this is "the WHO has regularly taken a cautious approach before recommending treatments where there is limited evidence of efficacy". I definitely would not write "these so-called experts are making stuff up".

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 9 May 2020
      Replying to @YIMBY_Princeton @HeadwaysMatter @mattyglesias

      No, delaying a literally no-risk intervention with a lot of arguments/evidence in its favor is not precaution. That's the problem. I'm for precaution when it's due. (BCG, sure). Masks are like hand-washing, you can make the same (evidence-free) increased risk argument there.

      11:57 AM - 9 May 2020
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Central NJ Yimby  🇺🇸 🚲 🏙‏ @YIMBY_Princeton 9 May 2020
          Replying to @zeynep @HeadwaysMatter @mattyglesias

          I wasn't in the room, but I doubt the WHO had population-level evidence that cloth masks are really effective. For hand-washing, they probably did. So the two things are maybe not exactly the same. And they are certainly different to BCG.

          3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 9 May 2020
          Replying to @YIMBY_Princeton @HeadwaysMatter @mattyglesias

          They had zero evidence of increased risk from mask use through any mechanism including false sense of security, and whatever they thought it applied equally well to handwashing. Rest has been litigated and science won. Almost everyone but the WHO has moved on. I'll leave it here.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        4. End of conversation

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