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zeynep's profile
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
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@zeynep

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zeynep tufekciVerified account

@zeynep

Complex systems, wicked problems. Society, technology, science and more. @UNC professor. @NYTimes columnist. My newsletter is @insight: http://www.theinsight.org 

floating in a most peculiar way
theinsight.org
Joined August 2009

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    1. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 18 Apr 2020

      zeynep tufekci Retweeted Ross Barkan

      Hong Kong is denser than NYC, relies on crowded mass transit, is not fully shut down, and had much more travel from Wuhan early on—and has had four known COVID deaths TOTAL in all these months. Four total. Don't let anyone say NYC tragedy was inevitable.https://twitter.com/RossBarkan/status/1251280238614654978 …

      zeynep tufekci added,

      Ross BarkanVerified account @RossBarkan
      Today, Slate is up with an excellent piece that distills why 11,000+ deaths in New York City was NOT inevitable. It's a lie that density alone explains the suffering. Denser places around the world are fine. And sparsely populated areas are struggling. https://slate.com/business/2020/04/coronavirus-new-york-city-outbreak-blame.html …
      Show this thread
      14 replies 321 retweets 662 likes
      Show this thread
    2. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 18 Apr 2020

      zeynep tufekci Retweeted johnnymagoo

      Hong Kong uses practically nothing but crowded subways (and crowded ferries and buses) for transportation. They acted early and especially universally masked up early. Four total deaths so far.https://twitter.com/johnnymagoo2/status/1251577796951932933 …

      zeynep tufekci added,

      johnnymagoo @johnnymagoo2
      Replying to @zeynep
      do they use subways?
      6 replies 31 retweets 103 likes
      Show this thread
    3. Dilan Esper‏ @dilanesper 18 Apr 2020
      Replying to @zeynep

      Hong Kong also has one land border, one seaport, and one airport. Making it super-easy to shut down movement and prevent a pathogen from entering and spreading. Plus they had experience with SARS. When I was there last fall, tons of people were wearing masks. It's inapplicable.

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    4. Dilan Esper‏ @dilanesper 18 Apr 2020
      Replying to @dilanesper @zeynep

      We should wear masks in the US. But there's no scenario where NYC was going to perform as well as HKG

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 18 Apr 2020
      Replying to @dilanesper

      Hong Kong never got to shut its border with Wuhan or with China.

      1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
    6. Dilan Esper‏ @dilanesper 18 Apr 2020
      Replying to @zeynep

      That's true. But they cracked down HARD on everyone else in March, and it's already difficult for mainlanders to go to Hong Kong (due to 1 country 2 systems). It's just a ridiculously easier border control situation than NYC has.

      1 reply 1 retweet 0 likes
    7. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 18 Apr 2020
      Replying to @dilanesper

      Four deaths total despite inability to close border WITH WUHAN (a train ride away) and not shutting down city plus one of the densest cities in the world with tiniest apartments and mass transit. I don't know how else it can demonstrate the difference. 🤷‍♀️

      1 reply 1 retweet 6 likes
    8. Dilan Esper‏ @dilanesper 18 Apr 2020
      Replying to @zeynep

      what papers did a Wuhan resident need to go to Hong Kong in late 2019? And how about in February 2020? MANY Chinese are not allowed to travel to Hong Kong. As I said, that's been true since the Handover.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. LO Kin-hei 羅健熙‏Verified account @lokinhei 18 Apr 2020
      Replying to @dilanesper @zeynep

      While I agree most traffic from Wuhan is halted after Wuhan is shutdown. There are reports that 5 million Wuhan ppl fled the city before it closes. At early stage, most confirmed cases in HK are those with travel history to mainland China. so I would say, masking helped a lot.

      3 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    10. Dilan Esper‏ @dilanesper 18 Apr 2020
      Replying to @lokinhei @zeynep

      i am sure it did! But I doubt that many people made it from Wuhan to Hong Kong. Even before coronavirus, very few people were allowed to do that: https://www.immd.gov.hk/eng/services/visas/overseas-chinese-entry-arrangement.html …

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 18 Apr 2020
      Replying to @dilanesper @lokinhei

      Compared with NYC? Anyway, not much more to say. It's clear. I'll repeat: four deaths in many months under much much much much less favorable conditions than NYC.

      12:04 PM - 18 Apr 2020
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Dilan Esper‏ @dilanesper 18 Apr 2020
          Replying to @zeynep @lokinhei

          it's easier for a Wuhan resident to get a foreign visa than a Hong Kong travel permit. Far easier. Hong Kong has always had a pretty hard border with the mainland. The Beijing government doesn't want its population to flee there.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. LO Kin-hei 羅健熙‏Verified account @lokinhei 18 Apr 2020
          Replying to @dilanesper @zeynep

          https://www.immd.gov.hk/eng/message_from_us/stat2.html … This is the traffic flow of Hong Kong immigration control points in January. It's mainland, not just Wuhan, but the figure is still huge. Annually, take 2018 as an example, we got 65 million visiting HK, of which 51 million from mainland China.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
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