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zeynep's profile
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
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@zeynep

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zeynep tufekciVerified account

@zeynep

Complex systems, wicked problems. Society, technology, science and more. @UNC professor. @NYTimes columnist. My newsletter is @insight: http://www.theinsight.org 

floating in a most peculiar way
theinsight.org
Joined August 2009

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    1. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 17 Mar 2020

      One big reason we don't have enough masks is that not only did China stop exporting them completely after COVID-19, China went and "bought up much of the rest of the world's supply." We should have ramped up domestic production in January but we didn't.😢 https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/13/business/masks-china-coronavirus.html …pic.twitter.com/HYGHUARNfR

      30 replies 469 retweets 1,111 likes
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    2. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 17 Mar 2020

      Sadly all those (well-meaning) posts from healthcare experts on how masks won't work for ordinary people because they won't wear them correctly likely encouraged hoarding even more. That was never a message that would work. No wonder I'm constantly seeing online ads for masks!

      14 replies 95 retweets 570 likes
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    3. Danly Omil-Lima, MD‏ @domillima 17 Mar 2020
      Replying to @zeynep

      In my community and our local hospitals, the unified message is if your sick enough to think you need to wear a mask, a better practice is to stay at home. If your healthy, also stay at home. And if you’re healthy and need to be out a better practice is hand hygiene, phones, keys

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 17 Mar 2020
      Replying to @domillima

      We're not testing people; there is clear asymptomatic/mild/undetected case transmission. How are people supposed to know when they should mask up? What is "sick enough" given this isn't like SARS—no consistent febrile presentation? Truth is, there aren't enough masks.

      2 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
    5. Danly Omil-Lima, MD‏ @domillima 17 Mar 2020
      Replying to @zeynep

      That’s exactly my point. There aren’t enough masks. In the same way people can perform the flawed mental math that decides “Hey, I’m at some increased risk and I should wear this mask,” they can instead decide to stay home.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 17 Mar 2020
      Replying to @domillima

      Telling people "there isn't enough masks" is what I propose rather than telling them masks don't work, or that they only need them if they are sick (since they cannot know when). Hong Kong, Taiwan etc. aren't all staying home. They masked up and life goes on, epidemic contained.

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    7. Danly Omil-Lima, MD‏ @domillima 17 Mar 2020
      Replying to @zeynep

      “There aren’t enough masks” sounds akin to “there aren’t enough lifeboats.” I don’t know how this is any less hysteria inducing. Strictly speaking I believe that masks alone do not work. The virus lives 10-12 hours on contact surfaces.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 17 Mar 2020
      Replying to @domillima

      It's not all or nothing. If that were the case, health care workers wouldn't be wearing them. There are papers out of Wuhan, comparing mask wearing and non-wearing healthcare workers, by the way. No infections among mask wearers, many among non-wearers. (I'll find paper again).

      3 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    9. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 17 Mar 2020
      Replying to @zeynep @domillima

      https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.02.18.20021881v1.full.pdf … Look at what Taiwan did again. They distributed masks, blocked hoarding, ramped up domestic production. Much saner, and health care people have the masks they need, plus lower rate of infection among the public, too.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    10. Danly Omil-Lima, MD‏ @domillima 17 Mar 2020
      Replying to @zeynep

      That’s exactly the paper. Methodologically flawed. N95 use in a particular ward generalized to people out in public. Yes if we had unlimited supply everyone could do what they please. These public health recommendations are couched in the context the resources we have.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 17 Mar 2020
      Replying to @domillima

      Yes! What I'm saying is messages should be couched in the *reality* of those resources we have. "Look, we don't have enough masks so we are going to prioritize health care workers and distribute what we have left while producing more." That may work. "Masks don't work"->hoarding.

      2:36 PM - 17 Mar 2020
      • 2 Likes
      • m duncan Marsh Ray: #BLM
      5 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        1. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 17 Mar 2020
          Replying to @zeynep @domillima

          (There are other papers; we know masks aren't perfect but we also know that they help stop those sick from spreading the disease; we know people can't know when they are sick especially as we aren't testing. And yet we don't have enough. So that's reality.)

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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        2. Danly Omil-Lima, MD‏ @domillima 17 Mar 2020
          Replying to @zeynep

          Not enough masked probably would’ve also led to panic and haording.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 17 Mar 2020
          Replying to @domillima

          I think you'd be surprised at people's capacity for altruistic behavior when approched with the stark truth and call for sacrifice. It's the feeling that the message is "massaged" to fit the top-down needs that lead to mistrust/hoarding. (Also good book: https://www.amazon.com/Paradise-Built-Hell-Extraordinary-Communities/dp/0143118072 …)

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
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        2. Danly Omil-Lima, MD‏ @domillima 17 Mar 2020
          Replying to @zeynep

          All three major hospital systems in my area are testing and having been doing so over the past week now. This will become the standard over the next few days to weeks. In the interim, the population that you’re focused on as being problematic—the asymptotic or false negatives

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Danly Omil-Lima, MD‏ @domillima 17 Mar 2020
          Replying to @domillima @zeynep

          are exactly the people we need to encourage to engage in social distancing.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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        2. Danly Omil-Lima, MD‏ @domillima 17 Mar 2020
          Replying to @zeynep

          Does the use of masks confer some increased potential? Yeah, maybe. But it’s not a practice we can endorse on a population level given what we’ve got.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 17 Mar 2020
          Replying to @domillima

          But, see, people *already* know that. Hence the hoarding. Being forthcoming about that, plus the shortage, plus a promise to address it as fast as we can would propably get more compliance. I suggest truthful if stark messaging, call for donations of the hoard plus action.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. End of conversation
        1. Marsh Ray: #BLM‏ @marshray 17 Mar 2020
          Replying to @zeynep @domillima

          The reality is that Asian countries have more masks because their public health people haven’t been running around telling telling everyone not to buy them.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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