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zeynep's profile
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
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@zeynep

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zeynep tufekciVerified account

@zeynep

Complex systems, wicked problems. Society, technology, science and more. @UNC professor. @NYTimes columnist. My newsletter is @insight: http://www.theinsight.org 

floating in a most peculiar way
theinsight.org
Joined August 2009

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    1. Noah Smith  🐇‏Verified account @Noahpinion 29 Sep 2019

      Remember: Hoffer doesn't think mass movements and revolutions are bad; he thinks they're necessary! But that because they're necessarily carried out by fanatics and bitter losers, they're very dangerous things, and should be brief and to-the-point.pic.twitter.com/IMAcDTRPdg

      2 replies 8 retweets 45 likes
      Show this thread
    2. Noah Smith  🐇‏Verified account @Noahpinion 29 Sep 2019

      Anyway, "The True Believer" is just the mostly unsupported ranting of one guy. But it has many interesting ideas that might help to understand current events! You can order it here: https://www.amazon.com/True-Believer-Thoughts-Movements-Perennial/dp/0060505915/ref=mp_s_a_1_1 … (end)

      6 replies 2 retweets 50 likes
      Show this thread
    3. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 30 Sep 2019
      Replying to @Noahpinion

      That book is the “assume a spherical cow” of social movement sociology! Aka debunked by decades of actual empirical sociology research. It makes for a fun reading, I guess, as long as you don’t actually take it seriously. 🤷‍♀️

      1 reply 1 retweet 12 likes
    4. Noah Smith  🐇‏Verified account @Noahpinion 30 Sep 2019
      Replying to @zeynep

      What are some examples of points that were debunked?

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    5. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 30 Sep 2019
      Replying to @Noahpinion

      The whole who joins movements part. Not at all found in actual research. None of the typologies hold. Practically the whole book. It’s just a eloquent guy ranting. Maybe you could say there are some insights of sorts into perhaps cults, kind of? Not movements.

      1 reply 0 retweets 10 likes
    6. Noah Smith  🐇‏Verified account @Noahpinion 30 Sep 2019
      Replying to @zeynep

      I'd love to check out some of the debunking papers! Can you link me to a paper or two on the topic of who joins movements?

      2 replies 0 retweets 5 likes
    7. Derek Thompson‏Verified account @DKThomp 30 Sep 2019
      Replying to @Noahpinion @zeynep

      seconded! i love this topic. i would guess that "who joins movements" changes as the movement evolves. early social movements might attract radicals when the cause itself is radical, but for any movement to succeed it eventually has to win over the less radical majority

      3 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
    8. Noah Smith  🐇‏Verified account @Noahpinion 30 Sep 2019
      Replying to @DKThomp @zeynep

      Also, he was thinking about militant mass movements of the early 20th century, which might look very different from a modern protest movement like the Hong Kong protests or BLM...maybe the Nazis or Bolsheviks were a lot more cult-like than protest movements.

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    9. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 30 Sep 2019
      Replying to @Noahpinion @DKThomp

      Okay calm now. I’m sure he got them wrong too. In their own time, those were also mass movements. He’s someone who’d look at women’s march today and say look at all these hysterical women. If you’re a recent serf or bedraggled sailor in Czar’s military? Perfectly rational choice.

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    10. Noah Smith  🐇‏Verified account @Noahpinion 30 Sep 2019
      Replying to @zeynep @DKThomp

      "He’s someone who’d look at women’s march today and say look at all these hysterical women." <-- Really? He didn't seem to ascribe "hysteria" to anyone in his book.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 30 Sep 2019
      Replying to @Noahpinion @DKThomp

      Of course not. Projecting his thinking forward as example. Large movements aren’t what he describes them to be. We have less empirical grounding for past but studies back to 1871 (Paris commune) show social networks mobilizing etc. Just like today. See: https://www.jstor.org/stable/2096251 

      9:09 AM - 30 Sep 2019
      • 4 Likes
      • Dr. Non-Linear g. "santa zoidberg" thompson Renatatta Pace Tad
      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
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        2. Noah Smith  🐇‏Verified account @Noahpinion 30 Sep 2019
          Replying to @zeynep @DKThomp

          "Projecting his thinking forward as example." <-- It doesn't seem very fair to "project" sexist attitudes onto the man long after his death! Thanks for the link, will read!

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 30 Sep 2019
          Replying to @Noahpinion @DKThomp

          Well pick your insult. I just picked a movement and matched insult. That book is from the movements as “madness of crowds” school which was pretty completely overturned after the 60s.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
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