I’m trying to understand if any of these people are actually on the ground like you and @zeynep are.
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A lot of the material appears to be sourced from protesters on Telegram and other apps. The problem is understanding and context; there is a lot of fanciful stuff on message boards, and the circumstances specific to Hong Kong matter a lot
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Yes but that’s not all. Most grantmakers and grantees in this field live in la-la land. They fund or provide “trainings” that are useless (hopefully not worse than useless). But they have no real experience and live on copypasta and lack of long-term follow up and accountability.
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Zeynep, this is really unfair. The folks I know and work closely with live and breath this stuff, and often the line between "grantee" and "activist" is blurry, if it exists at all. They have very real experience and are obsessed with sustainability and follow-up.
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I'd love to bring you to a gathering of implementers some time. I don't think they are the same folks you encounter in other "digital rights" or whatever spaces.
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Okay, I've had it. I'll do an open thread and you can judge. There should be slightly more accountability here.
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Being well-meaning in one's heart isn't enough.
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Agreed. Thankfully this community backs it up with actions and accountability.
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Josh, I have suffered through years of inanity and absolutely inapplicable advice freely dished to at-risk people. That copypasta document he's compiled is a mix between fantasy and fetishization. Someone so far from the ground shouldn't do this. It's irresponsible.
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I hear you, and have total respect for the clarity and purpose you bring to this debate.. But I wish you could address that particular doc on its own merits - and work to improve it - rather than using it to tar a community.
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That doc isn't fixable, that's the problem. I quietly correct whatever I see in things that are correctable (and welcome corrections myself). We all make mistakes. That's not it. It's like I started talking about brain surgery using copypasta from medical tweets.
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