But the events reveal not just being "less than completely perfect" or some lack of tactical savvy (both of which arguably so) but a deeper, different issue, and if this movement doesn't honestly confront and find an effective way out, they cannot function against what they face.
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Replying to @zeynep
what deeper, different issue does it reveal? they were angry at discovering a cop and propagandist in their midst... how should they have reacted?
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Replying to @mgerrydoyle
They have no mechanism for intervening in a situation that was in the brink of turning deadly, and besides all the obvious moral issues, no movement can survive that against a tough adversary. They also cannot win street battles (hope it never comes to that but they cannot).
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Replying to @zeynep
so the deeper issue is they can't win? I think you've put your finger on why they've responded the way they have in the face of an increasingly violent state: they have nothing to lose, and thus no reason to stop fighting
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Replying to @mgerrydoyle @zeynep
I also think it's deeply unfair to analyze their response to a heated situation this way without also acknowledging that is the government/police turning up the temperature--not the protesters. to the extent there is blame to assign for "the way things are," it's one-sided
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Replying to @mgerrydoyle @zeynep
That's the thing about authoritarianism: it co-opts any neutral mechanisms of investigation & arbitration. The police are supposed to be protecting civilians, not infiltrating and suppressing them. The protesters have to reinvent civil society outside the contours of state power.
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Replying to @ragepath @mgerrydoyle
It is very very tough. But the state/authoritarians will do what they do. The only thing dissident movements can do is understand what’s happening and find a way to respond. You can only control your own response is true here too.
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Replying to @zeynep @mgerrydoyle
The problem movements like this have, is that they can't collectively control their own response. The collective-action problems are immense and exacerbated by bad-faith infiltration (which also encourages protesters to minimize bad actors on their own side).
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Replying to @ragepath @mgerrydoyle
All that and more. And last weekends revelations of undercover police obviously laid the ground for this moment.
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Replying to @zeynep @mgerrydoyle
Yeah. This movement has done an amazing job so far and have provided an inspiring model for how to challenge authoritarian encroachment. But there's still a long way left to go. I'm filled with admiration for what they've accomplished and fear for what they may fail to achieve.
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The ones I spoke to are the oldest souls. :-( Very tough spot.
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