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zeynep's profile
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
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@zeynep

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zeynep tufekciVerified account

@zeynep

Complex systems, wicked problems. Society, technology, science and more. @UNC professor. @NYTimes columnist. My newsletter is @insight: http://www.theinsight.org 

floating in a most peculiar way
theinsight.org
Joined August 2009

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    1. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 12 May 2019

      Decades of research shows job training programs don't work at scale because of lack of *supply* of appropriate good jobs. There are always nice learned-to-code stories (I'm one: started coding as a kid and it literally saved my life) but those don't scale.https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/12/us/mined-minds-west-virginia-coding.html …

      32 replies 489 retweets 1,206 likes
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    2. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 12 May 2019

      I have seen many, many "teach computers to poor people" efforts over the year and studied them in my disseration. My most common observation is that they are wasting people's time and should just give people the money directly. Focus should be on living wage for realistic jobs.

      17 replies 137 retweets 521 likes
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    3. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 12 May 2019

      I don't discount the occasional success story, and I think there are a significant number of reasonable online resources for the few people who might be inclined & actually able to take this path. It just isn't a realistic path out of poverty in places like the one in this piece.

      3 replies 26 retweets 184 likes
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    4. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 12 May 2019

      I've seen "teach-them-code" efforts run by grifters. I've seen them them run by very well meaning people. I think there is some value in coding bootcamps, especially already well-positioned people to switch careers. It just isn't and won't ever be a way out of poverty at scale.

      9 replies 58 retweets 314 likes
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    5. Quentin Hardy‏Verified account @qhardy 12 May 2019
      Replying to @zeynep

      I've been trying to think of anything well-paying you could learn in 16 weeks, given a very basic high school education as a background. Army medic transiting to nursing maybe, but even medic training can run as long as 68 weeks.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    6. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 12 May 2019
      Replying to @qhardy

      Yeah. Nursing programs are hard to get into and require a lot of commitment. Similarly, the amount of remedial background work you need just to get started learning coding after crappy K-12 is a lot. And these people cannot just put everything aside for a year and survive.

      2 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
    7. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 12 May 2019
      Replying to @zeynep @qhardy

      Many of these programs are strict—you attend 100% or get kicked out. If you are poor to begin with, stuff goes wrong. Car has flat tire, can't get fixed immediately. Childcare falls through. "Bootcamp" is fine for college grad living with parent or someone with compatible degree.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    8. Quentin Hardy‏Verified account @qhardy 12 May 2019
      Replying to @zeynep

      Plus, their path to employment -- you'll learn, you'll apprentice, you'll star, you'll be hired -- was moonshine. This looks like an old-fashioned con job in trendy clothes. Nothing tech about it, except the rhetoric.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 12 May 2019
      Replying to @qhardy

      It is mostly snake-oil. There are also genuine well-meaning efforts. But so much research on all this in many versions has the same result! It doesn't work at scale (once you get through the very thin layer that was already poised to do well and provide your success stories).

      1:15 PM - 12 May 2019
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      0 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
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        2. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 12 May 2019
          Replying to @tuzgai @qhardy

          That's what is called "creaming" in the educational lingo. Anyone who has six months to spare has a lot of support in place already or is an easier case. I think bootcamps might be useful for people with appropriate background and time, looking to switch careers.

          0 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
        3. End of conversation

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