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zeynep's profile
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
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@zeynep

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zeynep tufekciVerified account

@zeynep

Complex systems, wicked problems. Society, technology, science and more. @UNC professor. @NYTimes columnist. My newsletter is @insight: http://www.theinsight.org 

floating in a most peculiar way
theinsight.org
Joined August 2009

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    2. Austen Allred‏ @Austen 8 Jan 2019
      Replying to @zeynep

      Hmm maybe you should talk with some of our students because you’re simply wrong, there’s no two ways about it

      7 replies 0 retweets 44 likes
    3. Ryan Herr  🪕‏ @rrherr 8 Jan 2019
      Replying to @Austen @AustenAllred @zeynep

      Zeynep, "creaming" is bad, but that's not what Lambda does. I'm sorry if the story confused. This grad shows what "motivated student" means: "I was circling the drain of poverty, and now my entire financial situation has changed for the rest of my life." https://youtu.be/NnujqB66xBo 

      1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
    4. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 8 Jan 2019
      Replying to @rrherr @AustenAllred

      Even in the thread, I note that coding bootcamps help some people (great!) and post-tuition is appropriate. My point is that the idea that something like that can scale up and make money without creaming is just not realistic—this isn't some unstudied, uncharted problem.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Ryan Herr  🪕‏ @rrherr 8 Jan 2019
      Replying to @zeynep @AustenAllred

      Ryan Herr  🪕 Retweeted Austen Allred

      Thanks, I admire your work and appreciate your response. Perhaps there’s a scaling limit? But we haven’t hit it yet. Because of the ISA, Lambda is 2-3x longer than bootcamps, with more diverse students:https://twitter.com/austenallred/status/1005118892669222912 …

      Ryan Herr  🪕 added,

      Austen Allred @Austen
      A code bootcamp founder called me a couple days ago asking how Lambda School has such a diverse student body. “You have folks from all walks of life, we end up always training rich kids.” Step one: don’t charge $18,000 in upfront non-refundable tuition
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 8 Jan 2019
      Replying to @rrherr @AustenAllred

      Your program trains few thousand students total per year? And you only accept students that can attend every class? That's a tiny number and attendance requirement is textbook creaming. (It's the main way most job training programs cream). I've no objection FOR THAT TINY SLICE.

      5:48 PM - 8 Jan 2019
      • 2 Likes
      • Tanmay Kanth ✪ ♛ ➐ Uyoyo
      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 8 Jan 2019
          Replying to @zeynep @rrherr @AustenAllred

          Discussing a program with few thousand as a solution to the student debt problem, or the even the incentive-alignment problem (which is true for the predatory for-profit sector) is ... mind blowing. You need something that scales to tens of millions, that's just college age. +

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 8 Jan 2019
          Replying to @zeynep @rrherr @AustenAllred

          +and as for job-training/bridge program with age groups, there are literally decades of findings that they don't work at scale, and the reasons are not secret. They don't work at scale even when free. OTOH, almost any selective, small program can work if you take very few.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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