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zeynep's profile
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
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@zeynep

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zeynep tufekciVerified account

@zeynep

Complex systems, wicked problems. Society, technology, science and more. @UNC professor. @NYTimes columnist. My newsletter is @insight: http://www.theinsight.org 

floating in a most peculiar way
theinsight.org
Joined August 2009

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    2. Quentin Hardy‏Verified account @qhardy 18 Nov 2018
      Replying to @stevesi @zeynep @benedictevans

      One can also write a supra program that looks at results and tags, and reports anomalies, or things society deems are biases. Frequently, the problem with ML may be the mirror it holds up to us.

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
    3. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 18 Nov 2018
      Replying to @qhardy @stevesi @benedictevans

      Only for obvious variables like race/gender which we know to look for. That's why there is so much reporting on that. Familiar ground. But ML will detect and discriminate things we could not previously detect, will not even think to check for. No variable list to run against.

      1 reply 3 retweets 22 likes
    4. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 18 Nov 2018
      Replying to @zeynep @qhardy and

      I think the current convo on AI/ML is what if it is wrong in the sense it reflects the biases in the training data which are often structural biases in human societies. I'm asking something different: what if it works, and detects something we previously could not—not at scale.

      1 reply 5 retweets 20 likes
    5. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 18 Nov 2018
      Replying to @zeynep @qhardy and

      And it's opacity means that we don't even know whatever latent thing it's using to classify. Instead of not hiring based on race, it's not hiring based on propensity to depression—and nobody knows that's what it's doing. No variable labeled "prop_depression". Just a giant matrix.

      5 replies 0 retweets 28 likes
    6. E. Mehmet Kıral‏ @EMehmetKiral 18 Nov 2018
      Replying to @zeynep @qhardy and

      Algorithms are scary even without the ML. Let me tell a story from Japan. We wanted to have internet banking in Japan. The bank had recently decided that this was only going to be possible through a one time password app. The app is available in Google play. But only in Japan.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    7. E. Mehmet Kıral‏ @EMehmetKiral 18 Nov 2018
      Replying to @EMehmetKiral @zeynep and

      Turns out, our Google play location is still registered in US (even though we have Japanese phones). You don't even see the change country button. We searched a while then deleted our us payment options, only then you could see the change country option. Can change once a year.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. E. Mehmet Kıral‏ @EMehmetKiral 18 Nov 2018
      Replying to @EMehmetKiral @zeynep and

      People can change countries more often than that, but let's put that aside. Then in order to change you needed your credit card info. Japan is still largely cash based and credit cards are not easy to get, esp. for foreigners. Luckily we had one from work, but most people don't.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. E. Mehmet Kıral‏ @EMehmetKiral 18 Nov 2018
      Replying to @EMehmetKiral @zeynep and

      So, the algorithm is 1) install app if in japan 2) if not change country on phone 3) change location with a Japanese credit card. The bank didn't need to make this app only available in Japan, Google doesn't need payment method to change location etc, but who do I complain to?

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    10. E. Mehmet Kıral‏ @EMehmetKiral 18 Nov 2018
      Replying to @EMehmetKiral @zeynep and

      These simple decision trees some engineers are implementing at these giant companies without much thought are at risk of locking people out of (what wlare becoming) essential systems/networks. Also what if Google decided to lock you out of your Gmail account? No ML, still scary

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 18 Nov 2018
      Replying to @EMehmetKiral @qhardy and

      This is a traditional issue though, not ML.

      6:43 PM - 18 Nov 2018
      • 1 Like
      • E. Mehmet Kıral
      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        1. E. Mehmet Kıral‏ @EMehmetKiral 18 Nov 2018
          Replying to @zeynep @qhardy and

          Yes, this is what I meant to say (by not ML, still scary). Even if people understood the meaning of the word algorithm in the old fashioned way (which I agree with you that they didn't) I think they would be justified in being opposed to it.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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