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zeynep's profile
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
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@zeynep

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zeynep tufekciVerified account

@zeynep

Complex systems, wicked problems. Society, technology, science and more. @UNC professor. @NYTimes columnist. My newsletter is @insight: http://www.theinsight.org 

floating in a most peculiar way
theinsight.org
Joined August 2009

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    1. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 16 Jul 2018
      Replying to @GarethDennis @peterktodd

      Cave-experts and rescuers of course innovate—but under a very different model of innovation. Almost all rescue situations are hotbeds of innovation and jerry-rigging. Someone was talking about how nurses in ICUs do the same—enormous innovation but embedded within protocols.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    2. Peter Todd‏ @peterktodd 16 Jul 2018
      Replying to @zeynep @GarethDennis

      What protocols? I'm sorry, but cave dive rescue is mostly not a thing because so few rescue attempts happen, and even fewer are successful. The two divers who found the kids had never done a successful dive rescue before - all body recoveries (one following a failed rescue).

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    3. Peter Todd‏ @peterktodd 16 Jul 2018
      Replying to @peterktodd @zeynep @GarethDennis

      It's also been rarely reported that the hard shelled sub was actually a *second* attempt — SpaceX worked to help another company w/ a few soft, inflatable, stretcher-like rescue pods. The anti-SV argument just desn't work here (an exception IMO; usually I'd criticise SV).

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    4. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 16 Jul 2018
      Replying to @peterktodd @GarethDennis

      Cave-diving is a thing. That rescue was a lot of cave-diving—and modern cave-diving is steeped in protocols, and innovation occurs within that context. Also I'm not criticizing developing a backup plan but doing it with a lot of publicity. That is a problem in rescue situations.+

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    5. Peter Todd‏ @peterktodd 16 Jul 2018
      Replying to @zeynep @GarethDennis

      Cave diving protocols have very little to do with rescue. Heck, one of popular protocols in the UK actively encourages solo diving because aid has proven counter productive. It's just not an honest criticism.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    6. Gareth Dennis‏ @GarethDennis 16 Jul 2018
      Replying to @peterktodd @zeynep

      Gareth Dennis Retweeted Gareth Dennis

      I'm sorry, you're just totally disregarding a huge volume of hard-won cave rescue experience. Even if you look at tech alone, the HeyPhones used to transmit through solid rock are the culmination of decades of experience.https://twitter.com/GarethDennis/status/1017122952893075456?s=19 …

      Gareth Dennis added,

      Gareth Dennis @GarethDennis
      Replying to @GarethDennis @KelArchaeo and 3 others
      Just in case that doesn't work... Screenies! pic.twitter.com/uRVMgd7M9w
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Peter Todd‏ @peterktodd 16 Jul 2018
      Replying to @GarethDennis @zeynep

      I'm talking about the novel part of the rescue that Musk tried to contribute too, the underwater part. That part was unprecedented. Other than the water the rescue was a easy one by caving standards - big passage and horizontal.

      1 reply 1 retweet 1 like
    8. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 16 Jul 2018
      Replying to @peterktodd @GarethDennis

      Also, Vern, the spelunker Elon insulted needlessly, is the one that somehow got the Thai authorities to bring in & turn the thing over to the cave-divers. As someone with a lifelong interest in the sociology of rescue/disaster recovery, HOLY SHIT. That's amazing & turning point.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    9. Peter Todd‏ @peterktodd 16 Jul 2018
      Replying to @zeynep @GarethDennis

      Note, the term "splunker" is often considered an insult in caving circles... That "bring in the cavalry" thing happens a lot when local authorities realise they're going to get people killed. The Thai divers — while brave — were probably smart enough to know they didn't know.

      2 replies 1 retweet 1 like
    10. Peter Todd‏ @peterktodd 16 Jul 2018
      Replying to @peterktodd @zeynep @GarethDennis

      One died and three more were hospitalized after all. It's not polite to say it, but they really needed the outside help, and I don't find it remarkable that they got it — I have faith that they'd have the self reflection to know when they needed help.

      1 reply 1 retweet 1 like
      zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 16 Jul 2018
      Replying to @peterktodd @GarethDennis

      There are many situations when sanity requires that they turn things over to experts and it is often an uphill fight. Given the Thai political context, I was pessimistic but yeah, kudos to the officials. Really tragic with the Thai Navy Seal though. Air-management issues. :-(

      1:44 AM - 16 Jul 2018
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      • Gareth Dennis
      0 replies 0 retweets 1 like

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