Cave-diving is a thing. That rescue was a lot of cave-diving—and modern cave-diving is steeped in protocols, and innovation occurs within that context. Also I'm not criticizing developing a backup plan but doing it with a lot of publicity. That is a problem in rescue situations.+
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zeynep tufekci Retweeted zeynep tufekci
Elon deleted his tweets in response here (he called the caver who convinced the Thai authorities and brought in the divers a "pedo guy"
) but here's the issue in a nutshell:https://twitter.com/zeynep/status/1018506650087559169 …zeynep tufekci added,
zeynep tufekciVerified account @zeynepReplying to @elonmuskBut my point isn't to criticize you for exploring a back-up option (is it still in development with domain experts?) but that the kind of publicity you seek/bring has downsides whatever your intentions may be, and that, broadly, the incredible rescue has broader lessons for tech.2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes -
zeynep tufekci Retweeted zeynep tufekci
Actually check out this thread of mine. (Him deleting his tweets has messed up the order)https://twitter.com/zeynep/status/1018498560789286912 …
zeynep tufekci added,
zeynep tufekciVerified account @zeynepReplying to @elonmuskSo Vern is the diver who was among the first there, dug up the maps, brought in the other divers, figured out where the boys were and convinced authorities. Look beyond your irritation with his irritation and listen for a sec why he might be irritated, ok? https://edition.cnn.com/2018/07/13/uk/thai-cave-rescue-british-divers-intl/index.html …2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes -
Screenshot format. A high-profile rescue is as much about managing the officials and everyone who was (unworkable) ideas as the rescue. The number of divers who could carry this out were so few that rescuehalted while they slept. Backup option should have been quietly developed.pic.twitter.com/1QZpxcKjXy
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Replying to @zeynep @GarethDennis
Indeed, quiet is good. But why was this so noisy? Frankly because of the media whipping up controversy more than anything. Musk's tweets *were* reasonable and took care to not give himself credit. Media presented it very differently and created a shit storm of controversy.
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I know people who've done cave rescue (and been victims in cave rescues) and they too complain about media. But that's it, they're complaining about the media itself...
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Replying to @peterktodd @GarethDennis
Agree about the media part, though social media is media under his control. Also, from what I can tell, the cave-diver community was agnostic to "okay, let's see" to Musk as backup *until* he started tweeting videos & the widespread media coverage. Then they feared the PR affect.
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The kind of iterative design we see in other safety cultures requires thick skin. Do you ever read incidents sections of scuba or caving boards?
NTSB type debriefings etc. Musk's thin skin to criticism isn't just a personality issue: iterative safety requires thick, thick skin.1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes -
Replying to @zeynep @GarethDennis
Yes I have; I am a caver. Sorry, but I see both "sub" solutions as sane iterative design based on sound engineering. There's just nothing to criticise there given the constraints. And iterative design *is* something SpaceX has lots or experience with.
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Replying to @peterktodd @GarethDennis
Caver on ground says it was rigid therefore useless and you lash out calling him a "pedo guy". I'm sure SpaceX team has people who are not that thin-skinned but he's the CEO. He also insulted the geologist expert who led the Thai side because he politely said couldn't use sub.
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I can see a sub being useful in some future, other setting. But someone has to lead and test and try and iterate. I wrote as much in my piece. There's no reason it couldn't eventually be useful...
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