The Thai SEALs who participated had little if any prior experience in cave diving, let alone rescue: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/asia-pacific/can-t-believe-it-worked-story-of-the-thailand-cave-rescue-1.3563754 … "Lacking proper helmets, the SEALs taped a medley of flashlights to their improvised headgear." Incredibly brave, and this did get one killed.
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Great quote from Richard Stanton, one of the two divers who found the kids, and who asked Musk to keep working on that sub: "This was completely uncharted, unprecedented territory and nothing like this has been done. So, of course there were doubts."
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Replying to @peterktodd
Gareth Dennis Retweeted zeynep tufekci
Terrible take. Read this and start again:https://twitter.com/zeynep/status/1018456864026132480?s=19 …
Gareth Dennis added,
zeynep tufekciVerified account @zeynepHeard about@Elonmusk's rescue "submarine"? The cave-diver who masterminded the Thai cave rescue called it a "PR stunt"—that was the politest thing he said. You might be wondering: well, he tried to help. Let me explain with this thread and this NYT piece. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/14/opinion/sunday/elon-musk-thailand-hubris.html … pic.twitter.com/MWicaJKaA6Show this thread1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes -
Replying to @GarethDennis @peterktodd
Cave-experts and rescuers of course innovate—but under a very different model of innovation. Almost all rescue situations are hotbeds of innovation and jerry-rigging. Someone was talking about how nurses in ICUs do the same—enormous innovation but embedded within protocols.
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Replying to @zeynep @GarethDennis
What protocols? I'm sorry, but cave dive rescue is mostly not a thing because so few rescue attempts happen, and even fewer are successful. The two divers who found the kids had never done a successful dive rescue before - all body recoveries (one following a failed rescue).
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It's also been rarely reported that the hard shelled sub was actually a *second* attempt — SpaceX worked to help another company w/ a few soft, inflatable, stretcher-like rescue pods. The anti-SV argument just desn't work here (an exception IMO; usually I'd criticise SV).
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Replying to @peterktodd @GarethDennis
Cave-diving is a thing. That rescue was a lot of cave-diving—and modern cave-diving is steeped in protocols, and innovation occurs within that context. Also I'm not criticizing developing a backup plan but doing it with a lot of publicity. That is a problem in rescue situations.+
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Replying to @zeynep @GarethDennis
Cave diving protocols have very little to do with rescue. Heck, one of popular protocols in the UK actively encourages solo diving because aid has proven counter productive. It's just not an honest criticism.
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Replying to @peterktodd @zeynep
Gareth Dennis Retweeted Gareth Dennis
I'm sorry, you're just totally disregarding a huge volume of hard-won cave rescue experience. Even if you look at tech alone, the HeyPhones used to transmit through solid rock are the culmination of decades of experience.https://twitter.com/GarethDennis/status/1017122952893075456?s=19 …
Gareth Dennis added,
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Replying to @GarethDennis @zeynep
I'm talking about the novel part of the rescue that Musk tried to contribute too, the underwater part. That part was unprecedented. Other than the water the rescue was a easy one by caving standards - big passage and horizontal.
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Also, Vern, the spelunker Elon insulted needlessly, is the one that somehow got the Thai authorities to bring in & turn the thing over to the cave-divers. As someone with a lifelong interest in the sociology of rescue/disaster recovery, HOLY SHIT. That's amazing & turning point.
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Replying to @zeynep @GarethDennis
Note, the term "splunker" is often considered an insult in caving circles... That "bring in the cavalry" thing happens a lot when local authorities realise they're going to get people killed. The Thai divers — while brave — were probably smart enough to know they didn't know.
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Replying to @peterktodd @GarethDennis
I use the term for myself, didn't know. (I know it from Turkish so thanks for letting me know the English connotation). I dabbled in caving gave up because of the danger. Only open water diving now. :-D
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