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zeynep's profile
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
zeynep tufekci
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@zeynep

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zeynep tufekciVerified account

@zeynep

Complex systems, wicked problems. Society, technology, science and more. @UNC professor. @NYTimes columnist. My newsletter is @insight: http://www.theinsight.org 

floating in a most peculiar way
theinsight.org
Joined August 2009

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    1. Peter Todd‏ @peterktodd 15 Jul 2018

      For example the actual rescue method had never been done before, so local kids were used to test and refine it in pools: http://www.businessinsider.com/thailand-cave-rescue-divers-practiced-on-local-kids-in-swimming-pool-2018-7 … Similarly, the exact techniques to pump the water out had to be invented on the fly. Improvisation is a big part of cave rescue.

      1 reply 5 retweets 32 likes
      Show this thread
    2. Peter Todd‏ @peterktodd 15 Jul 2018

      The Thai SEALs who participated had little if any prior experience in cave diving, let alone rescue: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/asia-pacific/can-t-believe-it-worked-story-of-the-thailand-cave-rescue-1.3563754 … "Lacking proper helmets, the SEALs taped a medley of flashlights to their improvised headgear." Incredibly brave, and this did get one killed.

      3 replies 3 retweets 33 likes
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    3. Peter Todd‏ @peterktodd 15 Jul 2018

      Great quote from Richard Stanton, one of the two divers who found the kids, and who asked Musk to keep working on that sub: "This was completely uncharted, unprecedented territory and nothing like this has been done. So, of course there were doubts."

      4 replies 2 retweets 37 likes
      Show this thread
    4. Gareth Dennis‏ @GarethDennis 16 Jul 2018
      Replying to @peterktodd

      Gareth Dennis Retweeted zeynep tufekci

      Terrible take. Read this and start again:https://twitter.com/zeynep/status/1018456864026132480?s=19 …

      Gareth Dennis added,

      zeynep tufekciVerified account @zeynep
      Heard about @Elonmusk's rescue "submarine"? The cave-diver who masterminded the Thai cave rescue called it a "PR stunt"—that was the politest thing he said. You might be wondering: well, he tried to help. Let me explain with this thread and this NYT piece. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/14/opinion/sunday/elon-musk-thailand-hubris.html … pic.twitter.com/MWicaJKaA6
      Show this thread
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 16 Jul 2018
      Replying to @GarethDennis @peterktodd

      Cave-experts and rescuers of course innovate—but under a very different model of innovation. Almost all rescue situations are hotbeds of innovation and jerry-rigging. Someone was talking about how nurses in ICUs do the same—enormous innovation but embedded within protocols.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    6. Peter Todd‏ @peterktodd 16 Jul 2018
      Replying to @zeynep @GarethDennis

      What protocols? I'm sorry, but cave dive rescue is mostly not a thing because so few rescue attempts happen, and even fewer are successful. The two divers who found the kids had never done a successful dive rescue before - all body recoveries (one following a failed rescue).

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    7. Peter Todd‏ @peterktodd 16 Jul 2018
      Replying to @peterktodd @zeynep @GarethDennis

      It's also been rarely reported that the hard shelled sub was actually a *second* attempt — SpaceX worked to help another company w/ a few soft, inflatable, stretcher-like rescue pods. The anti-SV argument just desn't work here (an exception IMO; usually I'd criticise SV).

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    8. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 16 Jul 2018
      Replying to @peterktodd @GarethDennis

      Cave-diving is a thing. That rescue was a lot of cave-diving—and modern cave-diving is steeped in protocols, and innovation occurs within that context. Also I'm not criticizing developing a backup plan but doing it with a lot of publicity. That is a problem in rescue situations.+

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    9. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 16 Jul 2018
      Replying to @zeynep @peterktodd @GarethDennis

      zeynep tufekci Retweeted zeynep tufekci

      Elon deleted his tweets in response here (he called the caver who convinced the Thai authorities and brought in the divers a "pedo guy" 😬) but here's the issue in a nutshell:https://twitter.com/zeynep/status/1018506650087559169 …

      zeynep tufekci added,

      zeynep tufekciVerified account @zeynep
      Replying to @elonmusk
      But my point isn't to criticize you for exploring a back-up option (is it still in development with domain experts?) but that the kind of publicity you seek/bring has downsides whatever your intentions may be, and that, broadly, the incredible rescue has broader lessons for tech.
      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    10. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 16 Jul 2018
      Replying to @zeynep @peterktodd @GarethDennis

      zeynep tufekci Retweeted zeynep tufekci

      Actually check out this thread of mine. (Him deleting his tweets has messed up the order)https://twitter.com/zeynep/status/1018498560789286912 …

      zeynep tufekci added,

      zeynep tufekciVerified account @zeynep
      Replying to @elonmusk
      So Vern is the diver who was among the first there, dug up the maps, brought in the other divers, figured out where the boys were and convinced authorities. Look beyond your irritation with his irritation and listen for a sec why he might be irritated, ok? https://edition.cnn.com/2018/07/13/uk/thai-cave-rescue-british-divers-intl/index.html …
      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
      zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 16 Jul 2018
      Replying to @zeynep @peterktodd @GarethDennis

      Screenshot format. A high-profile rescue is as much about managing the officials and everyone who was (unworkable) ideas as the rescue. The number of divers who could carry this out were so few that rescuehalted while they slept. Backup option should have been quietly developed.pic.twitter.com/1QZpxcKjXy

      1:19 AM - 16 Jul 2018
      • 2 Likes
      • Gareth Dennis
      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Peter Todd‏ @peterktodd 16 Jul 2018
          Replying to @zeynep @GarethDennis

          Indeed, quiet is good. But why was this so noisy? Frankly because of the media whipping up controversy more than anything. Musk's tweets *were* reasonable and took care to not give himself credit. Media presented it very differently and created a shit storm of controversy.

          2 replies 1 retweet 0 likes
        3. Peter Todd‏ @peterktodd 16 Jul 2018
          Replying to @peterktodd @zeynep @GarethDennis

          I know people who've done cave rescue (and been victims in cave rescues) and they too complain about media. But that's it, they're complaining about the media itself...

          1 reply 1 retweet 0 likes
        4. Show replies

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