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wycats's profile
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz  🥨
Verified account
@wycats

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Yehuda Katz  🥨Verified account

@wycats

Tilde Co-Founder, OSS enthusiast and world traveler.

Portland, OR
yehudakatz.com
Joined August 2007

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    1. Daniel Ehrenberg‏ @littledan Apr 12
      Replying to @awbjs @bterlson

      I've been so jealous of that plan as I've been working on class features. It'd be great to recuperate something like that. At the same time, I imagine we'll come up with the feature set differently this time, with input from a much broader group.

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    2. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Apr 13
      Replying to @littledan @awbjs @bterlson

      It's important to remember there there were enough flaws in that plan that TC39 quickly accepted the staged proposal. That said, at the time, we expressed worry about cross-cutting concerns, and it's time we revisited that question.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    3. Sam Tobin-Hochstadt‏ @samth Apr 13
      Replying to @wycats @littledan and

      I haven't been around enough to have a strong sense, but maybe there's a need for some periods where the language moves in big ways, and other periods where change is more incremental. Big steps, then consolidation.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    4. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Apr 13
      Replying to @samth @littledan and

      I think we also need a stronger sense that a feature might be good in isolation, but nonetheless not gonna make it right now. Increasingly, it feels like a very serious personal affront to object to an early stage feature.

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    5. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Apr 13
      Replying to @wycats @samth and

      I personally try to push back against features I think are "good but not good right now" before Stage 2, and then focus on fine-tuning after Stage 2.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    6. Allen Wirfs-Brock‏ @awbjs Apr 13
      Replying to @wycats @samth and

      and not just “right now”. Not every good language features idea is necessarily a good fit to every language.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    7. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Apr 18
      Replying to @awbjs @samth and

      But you can't always tell whether a feature will never be a good fit for a language (many bets on that front have been wrong, such as Shared Array Buffer), so I try to focus on what I know now.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    8. Marco Rogers‏ @polotek Apr 18
      Replying to @wycats @awbjs and

      This conversation is weirdly abstract. Can someone talk about which recent language changes are causing concern and why?

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    9. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Apr 18
      Replying to @polotek @awbjs and

      I think @awbjs has a problem with decorators, but I don't want to speak on his behalf.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Apr 18
      Replying to @wycats @polotek and

      More generally, there's a LOT of features in flight and people are getting pretty (legitimately) concerned about landing them so quickly that we don't have time to react to feedback: - class fields - private fields and methods - pipeline - null coalescing - safe navigation

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Apr 18
      Replying to @wycats @polotek and

      And that's not to mention other pretty meaty features that are pretty new, like Shared Array Buffer, async iterators, rest and spread properties, async function itself.

      9:43 PM - 18 Apr 2018
      • 1 Like
      • anh 🦄 🌈
      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        1. New conversation
        2. Daniel Ehrenberg‏ @littledan Apr 18
          Replying to @wycats @polotek and

          It'd true that you can list the things TC39 has been working on and can be presented in an intimidating way. But I think what we've promoted to late stages fits together well and can be learned piece by piece over time.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        3. Daniel Ehrenberg‏ @littledan Apr 18
          Replying to @littledan @wycats and

          For new proposals, I'm happy to see that many come with early implementations in transpilers and polyfills. I think we can spend time getting more feedback from the JS developer community on these to make sure we are not making a mistake.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        4. Daniel Ehrenberg‏ @littledan Apr 18
          Replying to @littledan @wycats and

          But, I don't want to talk about this as if it were a simple budget--understanding a language is more complicated than that, and it's just not actionable feedback for those who want to look into changes. We can direct contributors' energy into careful study.

          2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        5. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Apr 19
          Replying to @littledan @polotek and

          Totally agree. When pieces fit together nicely, they cost drastically less per feature than if they chafe against each other. Decorators and public/private fields took their time (and then some) and I think it's ok if other new features take time to get feedback and get refined.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        6. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Apr 19
          Replying to @wycats @littledan and

          The transpiler feedback loop is pretty strong, and letting people play with a collection of features to see how they'll be used in practice feels like a good way to understand what we're doing and take our time with it.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        7. Daniel Ehrenberg‏ @littledan Apr 19
          Replying to @wycats @polotek and

          There's a lot to work through for transpilers, like how do we make sure they don't become unmaintainable, and how do we manage expectations about stability (it will be unstable). But I think it will pay for itself if we can get enough help from the community.

          0 replies 1 retweet 1 like
        8. End of conversation

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