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wycats's profile
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz  🥨
Verified account
@wycats

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Yehuda Katz  🥨Verified account

@wycats

Tilde Co-Founder, OSS enthusiast and world traveler.

Portland, OR
yehudakatz.com
Joined August 2007

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    Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Apr 9

    Today I realized (with @littlecalculist) that the web is AWESOME at dealing with low-disk-space situations (or just generally phones with little disk space).

    8:30 AM - 9 Apr 2018
    • 3 Retweets
    • 17 Likes
    • Gaurav Munjal Paul Faria Wojciech Kwolek Erik Isaksen Árni Hermann Brandon van Beekum Giovanni Tempobono Mikey danny jay donnell
    7 replies 3 retweets 17 likes
      1. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Apr 9

        One major contributor: browser vendors have zealously guarded the right to evict things from the cache as needed, and according to algorithms of their choosing, even with the advent of PWAs.

        3 replies 1 retweet 8 likes
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      1. New conversation
      2. David S Herm-kins‏ @littlecalculist Apr 9
        Replying to @wycats

        To me it feels of a piece with the MP3’s (organize my folders) => iTunes (manage my local collection for me) => Spotify (manage local/remote for me) spectrum. As a platform that generally requires manual curation of local storage, apps feel line a major productivity regression.

        1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
      3. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Apr 9
        Replying to @littlecalculist

        On the other hand, for people with a lot of "hard-offline" situations, the ability to "set up" for offline is important, and automatic management works less good for that situation. I think the web needs a "Keep/Install" mode for that situation.

        4 replies 0 retweets 6 likes
      4. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate Apr 9
        Replying to @wycats @littlecalculist

        That's PWA install +https://developers.google.com/web/fundamentals/instant-and-offline/web-storage/offline-for-pwa …

        1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
      5. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate Apr 9
        Replying to @slightlylate @wycats @littlecalculist

        At the limit, eviction still possible, but combined with UI changes, much less likely

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      6. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Apr 9
        Replying to @slightlylate @littlecalculist

        I think this is roughly right for "web apps" (user agent specified limits, not many specified guarantees), but I think you still want something more guaranteed via something that looks like app installs. On balance, this situation is still great though, and best in class!

        2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
      7. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate Apr 9
        Replying to @wycats @littlecalculist

        Persistent Storage is probably what we need to evolve to handle hard cases. I.e., would you trade isolation for real persistence?

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      8. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate Apr 9
        Replying to @slightlylate @wycats @littlecalculist

        E.g., requiring a CSP value that opts the app into its own storage partition at all times in order to gain real persistence at install time

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      9. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Apr 9
        Replying to @slightlylate @littlecalculist

        Would this mean you would have to use the same origin for all content (what about fonts?)

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      10. 11 more replies
      1. New conversation
      2. Dan Bucholtz‏ @danbucholtz Apr 9
        Replying to @wycats @littlecalculist

        The thing that scares me a bit is knowing the data can be blown away at any time. I am imagining an offline data collection app that syncs when online, but the data gets blown away first before the reconnect and sync happens. Not sure if there is a good way to work around that.

        1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      3. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Apr 9
        Replying to @danbucholtz @littlecalculist

        Generally speaking, hints that data is really intended to be persistent work decently at resisting eviction, and could be improved in implementations. I don't think I would want a "drive by" API that didn't ALLOW engines to evict.

        2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Apr 9
        Replying to @wycats @danbucholtz @littlecalculist

        I could imagine an "install step" (@slightlylate has called this "Keep" in the past) that would have stronger caching effects, more like the caching provided by installing a native app.

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      5. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate Apr 9
        Replying to @wycats @danbucholtz @littlecalculist

        https://developers.google.com/web/fundamentals/instant-and-offline/web-storage/offline-for-pwa …

        0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
      6. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. David S Herm-kins‏ @littlecalculist Apr 9
        Replying to @wycats

        aka my phone

        1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      3. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Apr 9
        Replying to @littlecalculist

        If you really want to test out the scenario, there's an $80 Android Go phone now available in the USA:https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/3/30/17179694/zte-tempo-go-android-one-price-specs-us …

        0 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
      4. End of conversation
      1. Nimrod‏ @nimrody Apr 9
        Replying to @wycats @littlecalculist

        Awesome? Typical situation: Phone is low on disk space, removes items from cache. App downloads the items again and again draining battery and consuming precious data plan. User has no clue why being low on space means dead battery too.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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      1. Mikey‏ @ReasonableCoder Apr 9
        Replying to @wycats @littlecalculist

        One of the many reasons that make progressive web apps so great.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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      1. Steven‏ @styfle Apr 9
        Replying to @wycats @littlecalculist

        Now all we need is npm publishers to check the size of their packages before sending it out into the world, because "ain't nobody got space for dat"https://github.com/styfle/packagephobia …

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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