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wycats's profile
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz  🥨
Verified account
@wycats

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Yehuda Katz  🥨Verified account

@wycats

Tilde Co-Founder, OSS enthusiast and world traveler.

Portland, OR
yehudakatz.com
Joined August 2007

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    1. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Mar 25
      Replying to @slightlylate @andreasgal and

      That's the reason I sigh :smile: I remember asking about packaged apps in the first Chrome Dev Summit. You told me they weren't the future, but Chrome would have to circle back around. Chrome leadership and FF leadership, on the other hand, were in love with packaged apps.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    2. andreasgal‏Verified account @andreasgal Mar 25
      Replying to @wycats @slightlylate and

      Packed apps were a hack because app cache was so horrible. It was a quick fix. @fabricedesre hacked it in a day or two. Took years to get the real thing in place. We had to ship so some day we can do the right thing. That day never came

      3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Mar 25
      Replying to @andreasgal @slightlylate and

      If you ship a crappier native experience, you'll get canned before you can do the right thing. Because of a desire to ship fast, FFOS didn't have any vision other than "native, but worse". Again, don't want to armchair quarterback, but this vision didn't sell.

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
    4. Fabrice Desré‏ @fabricedesre Mar 25
      Replying to @wycats @andreasgal and

      You are totally wrong on the reason for the lack of success of FFOS. Rather, look at what makes or break a mobile platform: official support from top apps.

      4 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
    5. Kevin Caravaggio‏ @kevvurs Mar 25
      Replying to @fabricedesre @wycats and

      I enthusiastically owned the FireFox Phone with FFOS and for a little while, when my Samsung Galaxy S4 died, I limped to end of my AT&T contract on it. Terrible experience mainly since the Google Maps and Twitter ports sucked beyond all comprehension.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Julien Wajsberg‏ @jwajsberg Mar 25
      Replying to @kevvurs @fabricedesre and

      Gmaps: we were getting the 'basic' version because the full version was chrome only and had js errors on other platforms (same for Gmail). Twitter had a basic Web version, not so bad but not as good as the desktop webapp.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    7. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Mar 26
      Replying to @jwajsberg @kevvurs and

      Were you getting the basic version on desktop firefox? Twitter was an enthusiastic early adopter of service worker, so perhaps teaming up with them would have helped? Did you talk to the Chrome team about what would need to be standardized for GMaps?

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    8. andreasgal‏Verified account @andreasgal Mar 26
      Replying to @wycats @jwajsberg and

      It’s not standards. It’s reach. @firefox is mere distraction from @google ‘s viewpoint. Small minority of GMaps users use it. They can use those engineering cycles for features to reach more users with. Bonus: those users might switch to @chrome if GMaps ignores them long enough

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    9. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Mar 26
      Replying to @andreasgal @jwajsberg and

      There are at least some folks on Chrome who were desperate to make progress on standard tech (SW etc), and packaged apps in Firefox denied them an argument for migrating to more portable solutions. As has often been said, there's a lot of different views at a co like Google.

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    10. Fabrice Desré‏ @fabricedesre Mar 26
      Replying to @wycats @andreasgal and

      Not true: the FxOS team was pushing very hard inside Moz for service workers and web components. The brakes were put on by the "platform" team (now "firefox backend").

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Mar 26
      Replying to @fabricedesre @andreasgal and

      "packaged apps denied them" is not about people. I meant that people inside of Google who believed in SW has a hard time arguing against packaged apps internally when the other WebOSes were publicly saying the web is incapable and we need packaged apps to go fast.

      9:50 AM - 26 Mar 2018
      3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate Mar 26
          Replying to @wycats @fabricedesre and

          OMG...the politics were brutal. We started w/ SWs because it was the thing that didn't require a UI fight -- it was "just web tech". It was only when Mike Tsao grokked the shape of the future that we were able to move; huge props to him for that.

          0 replies 1 retweet 1 like
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        2. Fabrice Desré‏ @fabricedesre Mar 26
          Replying to @wycats @andreasgal and

          We needed offline support (but app cache was a nightmare, we tried and "shipped" at jsconf 2012 FxOS with appcache'd apps) and code signing to open access to some apis. To this day, the only hope is web packages for code signing + real urls afaik.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Mar 26
          Replying to @fabricedesre @andreasgal and

          AppCache was a known nightmare in 2012. A bunch of us ran for TAG to fix it, and advocated for (and worked on) Service Worker. We could have used strong support from FFOS (for arguments w/ other browsers), but now I'm repeating myself.

          2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        4. Fabrice Desré‏ @fabricedesre Mar 26
          Replying to @wycats @andreasgal and

          I think Jonas had a proposal to replace appcache at the time (not SW though).

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        5. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Mar 26
          Replying to @fabricedesre @andreasgal and

          I spoke with Jonas at the time. His proposal was a new declarative manifest. I mentioned it in my 2013 post on SW: http://yehudakatz.com/2013/05/21/extend-the-web-forward/ … We really, really needed a primitive to avoid locking the web into another round of mistakes.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        6. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Mar 26
          Replying to @wycats @fabricedesre and

          Relevant quote: "Something like Jonas Sicking's app cache manifest is a great companion proposal, giving us a nice starting point for a high-level API. But this time if the high-level API doesn't work, we can fix it by using the low-level API to tweak and improve the manifest."

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        7. End of conversation
        1. New conversation
        2. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Mar 26
          Replying to @wycats @fabricedesre and

          (because that was exactly the same argument packaged apps proponents were making inside of Google, so they felt validated)

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Julien Wajsberg‏ @jwajsberg Mar 26
          Replying to @wycats @fabricedesre and

          yeah, this was mostly an implementation issue badly mistaken as a fundamental issue. SW and appcache not fast enough + need to preload apps on a phone.

          0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        4. End of conversation

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