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wycats's profile
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz  🥨
Verified account
@wycats

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Yehuda Katz  🥨Verified account

@wycats

Tilde Co-Founder, OSS enthusiast and world traveler.

Portland, OR
yehudakatz.com
Joined August 2007

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    1. andreasgal‏Verified account @andreasgal Mar 25
      Replying to @fabricedesre @wycats and

      Yup. And we had to ship/get users to get apps. Hence many shortcuts we didn’t like

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Mar 25
      Replying to @andreasgal @fabricedesre and

      And how'd that go for ya?

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    3. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Mar 25
      Replying to @wycats @andreasgal and

      Less glib: you didn't just need to ship, you needed to ship a new vision for a platform. The shortcuts muddied the waters until nobody could see the vision, and, all else equal, nobody wants more platforms to support.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    4. andreasgal‏Verified account @andreasgal Mar 25
      Replying to @wycats @fabricedesre and

      People don’t build apps for a vision. They build it for users. We tried to get them. Were canceled before we could. @KaiOStech is finishing our run

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Mar 25
      Replying to @andreasgal @fabricedesre and

      People absolutely do build apps for a vision. I'm shocked to hear you say this.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. andreasgal‏Verified account @andreasgal Mar 25
      Replying to @wycats @fabricedesre and

      We tried vision. Didn’t work. People build for reach not to feel good. Hard to blame them

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    7. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Mar 25
      Replying to @andreasgal @fabricedesre and

      Vision is not about "feel good". It's about convincing people that you have a reason to exist that justifies the pain of another thing, and convincing them you'll stick around long enough to see it through.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Mar 25
      Replying to @wycats @andreasgal and

      In this case, big apps couldn't help but see FFOS as a crappier Windows Phone. Another platform to support with painful restrictions and nothing to justify the extra work. As a developer, I was praying for these platforms to die.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    9. andreasgal‏Verified account @andreasgal Mar 25
      Replying to @wycats @fabricedesre and

      Well they all did

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Mar 25
      Replying to @andreasgal @fabricedesre and

      Yep. What you needed was fewer devs hoping for failure, and "we worked kind of fast to get a subset of native features working poorly on slow phones" didn't do that. I have no idea if the PWA vision would have fared better, but the pitch wouldn't have given me (a dev) the shakes

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Mar 25
      Replying to @wycats @andreasgal and

      "If you build a <FFPWA>, it'll work on mobile, and of course it'll work on FirefoxOS, because FirefoxOS is just the web. But if you target FFOS, not only will your app work on the web, but it will also have superpowers when running inside of FFOS"

      6:33 PM - 25 Mar 2018
      • 1 Like
      • Adam Rackis
      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        1. New conversation
        2. Fabrice Desré‏ @fabricedesre Mar 25
          Replying to @wycats @andreasgal and

          FFOS started in 2011. PWA were far from being a thing then.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Mar 25
          Replying to @fabricedesre @andreasgal and

          @slightlylate, @annevk and I were pitching them to anyone who would listen *at the time*. I spoke with FFOS folks at the first Chrome Dev Summit. @annevk and I commiserated *at the time*.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Mar 25
          Replying to @wycats @fabricedesre and

          I wrote this in 2013, after running for TAG in 2012 overtly to fix the app cache mess: http://yehudakatz.com/2013/05/21/extend-the-web-forward/ … I wrote the Extensible Web Manifesto in 2013 in part to push back against the widely held belief that packaged apps were the only way forward.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Mar 25
          Replying to @wycats @fabricedesre and

          FFOS engineers were aware of the PWA vision at the time, and just didn't believe it was worth prioritizing. Full stop.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        6. Fabrice Desré‏ @fabricedesre Mar 25
          Replying to @wycats @andreasgal and

          You're laughable. full stop.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        7. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Mar 25
          Replying to @fabricedesre @andreasgal and

          I'm laughable because...

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        8. Fabrice Desré‏ @fabricedesre Mar 25
          Replying to @wycats @andreasgal and

          because you pretend to know what we believed in, while it's clearly not the case. Your whole view of what happened in FFOS is an alternate reality

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        9. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Mar 25
          Replying to @fabricedesre @andreasgal and

          I was a Mozillian (such as the term makes sense) at the time, and have worked closely with Mozilla leaders and standards folks on web components, service worker, asm.js/wasm for years. More recently, I have attended literally every Mozilla all-hands.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        10. 2 more replies
        1. New conversation
        2. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Mar 25
          Replying to @wycats @andreasgal and

          This is a story I'd have fought for, including pitching clients and managers.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Fabrice Desré‏ @fabricedesre Mar 25
          Replying to @wycats @andreasgal and

          Some of us fought. It was ugly, and we lost.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        4. End of conversation

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