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wycats's profile
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz  🥨
Verified account
@wycats

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Yehuda Katz  🥨Verified account

@wycats

Tilde Co-Founder, OSS enthusiast and world traveler.

Portland, OR
yehudakatz.com
Joined August 2007

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    1. Mark Nottingham‏ @mnot Mar 22

      Wow, HTTP/2 Server Push is now shorthand for "something we over-engineered." #IETF101 #QUIC

      10 replies 47 retweets 133 likes
    2. Jeffrey Yasskin‏ @jyasskin Mar 22
      Replying to @mnot

      Perhaps, "shipped without evidence that it actually helped". 😋

      2 replies 6 retweets 33 likes
    3. Mark Nottingham‏ @mnot Mar 22
      Replying to @jyasskin

      ^^ this

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    4. James M Snell‏ @jasnell Mar 22
      Replying to @mnot @jyasskin

      Many times this.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    5. James M Snell‏ @jasnell Mar 22
      Replying to @jasnell @mnot @jyasskin

      There's quite a bit about the protocol that makes me feel this way, to be honest. It was rushed out the door far too quickly without enough real world validation.

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
      Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Mar 23
      Replying to @jasnell @mnot @jyasskin

      And in the interim, years of effort into things like web packaging were completely stalled because too many folks were true believers. There's a lesson here.

      12:52 AM - 23 Mar 2018
      • 3 Likes
      • Josh Buchea ⚡️ Masataka Yakura jamshid
      3 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Mark Nottingham‏ @mnot Mar 23
          Replying to @wycats @jasnell @jyasskin

          So you’re a true believer in Web Packaging, then?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Mar 23
          Replying to @mnot @jasnell @jyasskin

          I worked on the first draft when I was on TAG. Never wavered. Not sure whether AMP interest is helping or hurting, but if it ships I'll be thrilled.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        4. Anne van Kesteren‏ @annevk Mar 23
          Replying to @wycats @mnot and

          Note that it’s more than bundling now (e.g., signing of resources) and the bits Google seems to be prioritizing are not the bundling bits.

          2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        5. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Mar 23
          Replying to @annevk @mnot and

          Yep. That's what I mean by not sure how much AMP interest is helping.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. Mark Nottingham‏ @mnot Mar 23
          Replying to @wycats @annevk and

          So we stalled getting to the thing you’re a true believer in because too many true believers paid attention to the thing that didn’t work out. Mind you, your thing hasn’t been deployed, but it’ll work out, right?

          2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        7. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Mar 23
          Replying to @mnot @annevk and

          I took your bait politely and you slammed me for it. Too bad. Bundling is a tried and true technique on the web that is by far the dominant solution today for significant-sized apps. Paving that cowpath is better than building a new speculative rube Goldberg.

          3 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
        8. Mark Nottingham‏ @mnot Mar 23
          Replying to @wycats @annevk and

          I baited you? How? You're using very pejorative terms, don't be surprised if you get pushback.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        9. End of conversation
        1. New conversation
        2. Anne van Kesteren‏ @annevk Mar 23
          Replying to @wycats @jasnell and

          https://esdiscuss.org/topic/generic-bundling#content-62 … basically halted the entire effort. Found via https://github.com/whatwg/fetch/commit/e5c1f60bce08f571b3da946560eeb3012776ab87 … which is somewhat amusing in hindsight.

          2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Mar 23
          Replying to @annevk @jasnell and

          "And with HTTP 2.0 on near horizon, the limitation in number of requests is completely removed: we have full multiplexing, prioritization, flow control.. which is exactly where we want to go if we want to accelerate page load times." 😔

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Mar 23
          Replying to @wycats @annevk and

          (4 years ago, near horizon)

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Mar 23
          Replying to @wycats @annevk and

          Yeah, I'm preaching to the choir. So sue me ;)

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. End of conversation
        1. New conversation
        2. Jeffrey Yasskin‏ @jyasskin Mar 23
          Replying to @wycats @jasnell @mnot

          Web Packages/Bundles, used for performance, have many of the same problems as Push: you don't know which resources to bundle. <link rel=preload> doesn't have this problem and only takes ~1RTT to kick in. The remaining issue is cross-resource compression.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Mar 23
          Replying to @jyasskin @jasnell @mnot

          Cross resource compression is much simpler with a single payload, and bundles don't have the connection sharing problem. Those two are the biggest h2/push issues that I see as a prospective user.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Jeffrey Yasskin‏ @jyasskin Mar 23
          Replying to @wycats @jasnell @mnot

          Yes, sorry, I should have said "the remaining issue *that bundles solve* is cross-resource compression." There is an HTTP-level proposal for doing the same thing, https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-vkrasnov-h2-compression-dictionaries-03 …, which we should keep evaluating in parallel.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. End of conversation

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