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wycats's profile
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz  🥨
Verified account
@wycats

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Yehuda Katz  🥨Verified account

@wycats

Tilde Co-Founder, OSS enthusiast and world traveler.

Portland, OR
yehudakatz.com
Joined August 2007

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    1. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Mar 14

      Just to be clear, I am not saying that to fix the windows problem every developer needs to thinks about portability all the time.

      2 replies 3 retweets 17 likes
      Show this thread
    2. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Mar 14

      I think that there are two broad problems that make the problem so bad, and both of them can be improved significantly without placing the burden on day to day developers.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      Show this thread
    3. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Mar 14

      First, too many popular tools don't work on Windows (or only pass tests on Windows, and don't work when introducing common real world elements). The way to fix this issue is leverage: build abstractions that work on Windows,

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
      Show this thread
    4. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Mar 14

      then get popular tools to use them, then get less popular tools to lean on the popular tools, rinse repeat. The good news is the highest leverage points (languages) more and more support windows very competently.

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
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    5. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Mar 14

      The second problem is that people often assume (and disseminate) false information about when you really need to use portable abstractions, which causes tools to gratuitously fail to work on Windows.

      1 reply 2 retweets 6 likes
      Show this thread
    6. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Mar 14

      My favorite example of this is that developers broadly believe that path.join() is unnecessary because windows "supports /". However, windows doesn't support / in "verbatim" file names beginning with "\\?\", which are used a lot to work around path size limitations.

      1 reply 1 retweet 12 likes
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    7. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Mar 14

      So code that does `${parent}/${child}` will appear to work fine, and then fall apart when used with other production abstractions trying to be resilient on Windows.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
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      Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Mar 14

      You might be thinking that this kind of wacky behavior is just further evidence that Windows is a lost cause, but the truth is that the problem was caused by people believing (and disseminating) a false belief that you don't need path abstractions.

      9:16 AM - 14 Mar 2018
      • 7 Likes
      • grey was a ghost before it was cool Who ordered *that*? Aaron Turon 🏳️‍🌈 Melanie Sumner 💥 🐹 Dan Levy Steven Murawski
      1 reply 0 retweets 7 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Mar 14

          That's just one example. Other examples (largely historical) that I have noticed in my career include: * Windows has no support for symlinks * Windows has no support for anything like inotify

          2 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
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        3. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Mar 14

          My favorite example of something we did in Ember CLI to better support Windows is creating the symlink-or-copy utility (kudos to @stefanpenner for that one). It uses symlinks where available (often true on Windows!) and falls back to copying when needed.

          3 replies 0 retweets 10 likes
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        4. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Mar 14

          * We didn't have to give up good performance just to support windows * We didn't fall into the common trap of supporting symlinks on *nix and not on Windows (the "make it work but don't optimize it" trap) * The abstraction largely eliminates the cognitive load from portability

          2 replies 0 retweets 8 likes
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        5. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Mar 14

          I do not believe that "shaming" everyday developers into supporting Windows is a good idea. People have enough on their plate already, and asking them to think about new requirements all the time doesn't work.

          1 reply 0 retweets 10 likes
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        6. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Mar 14

          But I do think there's a lot more we can do at the tooling level and culturally to help people fall into the "pit of success" when it comes to portability and windows support.

          0 replies 0 retweets 14 likes
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        7. End of conversation

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