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wycats's profile
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz  🥨
Verified account
@wycats

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Yehuda Katz  🥨Verified account

@wycats

Tilde Co-Founder, OSS enthusiast and world traveler.

Portland, OR
yehudakatz.com
Joined August 2007

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    Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Jan 3

    Am I reading this correctly? The Chrome team believes that regular GET requests are now CSRF vectors due to the disclosed attacks? If so, that has wide ranging implications on using links on the web. https://www.chromium.org/Home/chromium-security/ssca …pic.twitter.com/LeiEhnr7K0

    11:05 PM - 3 Jan 2018
    • 519 Retweets
    • 683 Likes
    • JavaScript PLOW PaquitoSoft TC Gnome Christopher Webb Jiayong Ou / 区家勇 Mischan Toosarani-Hausberger Florian Trần Hoàng Minh darksh3llGR
    35 replies 519 retweets 683 likes
      1. New conversation
      2. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Jan 3

        I've worked on multiple CSRF mitigations in my time on the Rails security team and if GET requests are really now vulnerable to the extent that Google is suggesting using randomized URLs or CSRF tokens, this shit is about to get real.

        1 reply 14 retweets 70 likes
        Show this thread
      3. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Jan 3

        To state the obvious, you cannot use CSRF tokens in URLs and also have those links work as normal links from other web sites.

        2 replies 7 retweets 41 likes
        Show this thread
      4. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Jan 3

        This means that using the same URL for multiple logged-in users becomes a no-no. Again, to state the obvious, this means that I can't share the same URL for a tweet with you if that URL displays personalized content for logged in users.

        5 replies 12 retweets 45 likes
        Show this thread
      5. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Jan 3

        I might be misreading what Google is saying here, but this seems like a significant implication if true.

        12 replies 6 retweets 60 likes
        Show this thread
      6. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. quadhead‏ @harromueller Jan 4
        Replying to @wycats

        I think the Chrome team is overreacting a bit. As soon as all OS patches are delivered, the problem is gone for Chrome. It is a CPU vuln and can be mitigated by the OS.

        1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
      3. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Jan 4
        Replying to @harromueller

        Only the kernel/user vuln. The userspace vuln can't be patched.

        2 replies 1 retweet 10 likes
      4. quadhead‏ @harromueller Jan 4
        Replying to @wycats

        Damn... but still: Chrome/V8 and the other browsers should be patched instead of the whole internet.

        1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
      5. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Jan 4
        Replying to @harromueller

        Yeah. We should figure it out. Unfortunately SiteIsolation is a chrome only feature so frameworks like rails can't rely on it.

        2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
      6. rugk‏ @rugkme Jan 4
        Replying to @wycats @harromueller

        Hm Firefox has something similar: https://www.ghacks.net/2017/11/22/how-to-enable-first-party-isolation-in-firefox/ … In any case it needs to be activated by the user, so nobody can rely on that.

        0 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
      7. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Manuel Strehl‏ @m_strehl Jan 3
        Replying to @wycats

        Wasn't that part of what CORS should address? Or put another way, if the client let's a random script access JSON loaded in an <img>, the client is doing shit, isn't it?

        1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
      3. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Jan 3
        Replying to @m_strehl

        That was the assumption, but these are new attacks that invalidate those assumptions.

        1 reply 0 retweets 10 likes
      4. Manuel Strehl‏ @m_strehl Jan 3
        Replying to @wycats

        OK, I'm starting to getting to grips with that attack. Mozilla posted about it, too: https://blog.mozilla.org/security/2018/01/03/mitigations-landing-new-class-timing-attack/ …

        1 reply 5 retweets 20 likes
      5. Anne van Kesteren‏ @annevk Jan 4
        Replying to @m_strehl @wycats

        Note that CORS was never a defense. The same-origin policy is, but it has known holes such as this that could always lead to some information exposure.

        1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
      6. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Jan 4
        Replying to @annevk @m_strehl

        But now it can lead to total information disclosure. We might want to close the prerender hole in Same-Site lax mode. If someone really wants that feature, maybe we need a "actually top level nav only for real" mode.

        1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
      7. Anne van Kesteren‏ @annevk Jan 4
        Replying to @wycats @m_strehl

        Yes, it sounds pretty bad indeed. I hope @mikewest is on it, assuming you’re referring to cookies.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      8. Mike West‏ @mikewest Jan 4
        Replying to @annevk @wycats @m_strehl

        With the caveat that I'm still on vacation, and haven't followed internal threads, my understanding is that Site Isolation will be pushing prerendering into a distinct process in Chrome, which is a good mitigation for this class of attack.

        1 reply 0 retweets 14 likes
      9. Mike West‏ @mikewest Jan 4
        Replying to @mikewest @annevk and

        (In fact, that might already be the case in stable, now that we're shipping PlzNavigate. @nasko will know.)

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      10. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Michael Warkentin‏ @mwarkentin Jan 4
        Replying to @wycats

        Looks like they removed that recommendation now?

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      3. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Jan 4
        Replying to @mwarkentin

        I would be very happy if they explained why they wrote it in the first place and then removed it.

        0 replies 0 retweets 7 likes
      4. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Zubair Chaudary‏ @zrc210 Jan 5
        Replying to @wycats

        I noticed that line is now missing from the original link. Was the threat overblown, or is it getting reported in a separate bulletin?

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Jan 5
        Replying to @zrc210

        I don't know. I wish someone from Google would say what happened here :)

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. End of conversation

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