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wycats's profile
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz  🥨
Verified account
@wycats

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Yehuda Katz  🥨Verified account

@wycats

Tilde Co-Founder, OSS enthusiast and world traveler.

Portland, OR
yehudakatz.com
Joined August 2007

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    1. Daniel Hemel‏ @DanielJHemel Jan 1
      Replying to @DanielJHemel @BenSpielberg @wycats

      Most state gov't spending goes toward education, health care, & public welfare programs. Certainly w/in the context of a tax system in which capital expenditures are expensed, employer-sponsored health insurance is excluded, & charitable contributions are deductible ... 3/

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Daniel Hemel‏ @DanielJHemel Jan 1
      Replying to @DanielJHemel @BenSpielberg @wycats

      ... states and their citizens should not face a tax penalty for providing those services collectively through civic institutions rather than via market mechanisms or the nonprofit sector. As for the claim that the SALT deduction is regressive ... 4/

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Daniel Hemel‏ @DanielJHemel Jan 1
      Replying to @DanielJHemel @BenSpielberg @wycats

      a) distributional effects of payroll tax proposal look very different from distribut'l effects of SALT deduction. Payroll tax proposal would allow itemizers **& nonitemizers** to pay for state & local gov't services w/pre-fed-tax $$$, which --> a much less skewed distribution 5/

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Daniel Hemel‏ @DanielJHemel Jan 1
      Replying to @DanielJHemel @BenSpielberg @wycats

      b) distributional effects need to be analyzed relative to the counterfactual in which state & local gov't services are paid for w/after-fed-tax $$$ (above $10k cap for the few remaining -- & generally high-income -- itemizers). 6/

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Ben Spielberg‏Verified account @BenSpielberg Jan 1
      Replying to @DanielJHemel @wycats

      Or we can just reject this false notion that people are paying a “penalty” when they’re in fact just not getting a break they shouldn’t get. All of the tax breaks you mentioned should be eliminated. All income should be taxed the same, and at very high rates for wealthy people.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Daniel Hemel‏ @DanielJHemel Jan 1
      Replying to @BenSpielberg @wycats

      Surely you don't really believe "income" is a self-defining concept. "Income" is what we choose to tax, & those choices reflect a range of values, administrability constraints, historical contingencies, & political realities. 1/

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Daniel Hemel‏ @DanielJHemel Jan 1
      Replying to @DanielJHemel @BenSpielberg @wycats

      My claim is that a normatively desirable definition of taxable income would accommodate a deduction for state & local taxes. It's no answer to say that all income should be taxed the same. cc @BorisBittker #BittkerSurreyDebate

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Ben Spielberg‏Verified account @BenSpielberg Jan 1
      Replying to @DanielJHemel @wycats

      Income is not, in fact, a very difficult concept to define. I’m not really sure why you think it is.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Jan 1
      Replying to @BenSpielberg @DanielJHemel

      What's the definition of income?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Ben Spielberg‏Verified account @BenSpielberg Jan 1
      Replying to @wycats @DanielJHemel

      Money you receive. You can argue about whether to tax unrealized appreciation or not but most of it can be pretty straightforward.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Jan 1
      Replying to @BenSpielberg @DanielJHemel

      Does money you never received because it was immediately taxed via the FICA system count?

      9:28 AM - 1 Jan 2018
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Ben Spielberg‏Verified account @BenSpielberg Jan 1
          Replying to @wycats @DanielJHemel

          Income that’s currently withheld counts as income, yes.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Jan 1
          Replying to @BenSpielberg @DanielJHemel

          What about money that is provided to the government by an employer, but only in direct proportion to the employee's income?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Ben Spielberg‏Verified account @BenSpielberg Jan 1
          Replying to @wycats @DanielJHemel

          No, that’s not the individual’s income. There’s a debate to be had about how much flows through to them, as I’m sure you know.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Jan 1
          Replying to @BenSpielberg @DanielJHemel

          Is there a good economic reason to treat these as different? In particular, the debate about moving from an income tax to a payroll tax is precisely about recategorizing income as not-income under this definition, and you have a problem with that recategorization.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. Ben Spielberg‏Verified account @BenSpielberg Jan 1
          Replying to @wycats @DanielJHemel

          Yes: the reason is that one has a definite and direct impact on the individual and the other doesn’t.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        7. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Jan 1
          Replying to @BenSpielberg @DanielJHemel

          I understand the theory, but the fact that the two are so fungible creates a problem for treating them as different from a policy perspective.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        8. Ben Spielberg‏Verified account @BenSpielberg Jan 1
          Replying to @wycats @DanielJHemel

          They aren’t nearly as fungible as many economists assume they are. One of the problems with economics as a profession is this sort of assumption about employer taxes and wages. It just doesn’t work the way they think it will in the real world.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        9. Ben Spielberg‏Verified account @BenSpielberg Jan 1
          Replying to @BenSpielberg @wycats @DanielJHemel

          One Democratic justification for the Cadillac Tax - that wages would rise when benefits get scaled back - is a good example of this misguided thinking that doesn’t have good evidence behind it.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
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